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DIRECTV HD Receiver with TiVo (Official Q3 2010 Thread)

Discussion in 'DIRECTV General Discussion' started by Stuart Sweet, Jun 24, 2010.

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  1. bicker1

    bicker1 Hall Of Fame

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    Of course not, but neither do they have the ability to offer a DVR as good as the HR24.

    In both cases, I believe, the TiVo became/will become the only DVR that the company is acquiring (going forward) for deployment into the field as leased units. (They're not trashing their pre-existing inventory, of course.)
     
  2. bicker1

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    Again, that's only if there is any reasonable basis for placing "blame", in the first place.

    I didn't speculate that TiVo may have "given up" on the project, but rather that they simply have it at a lower priority than some of the folks in this thread do, for the reasons I've outlined and/or probably others we have no awareness of nor means of gaining such awareness.

    Without the same kind of access to their inside information that I had with hundreds of other companies during my career, I can only speculate. And I already did point out two very obvious higher priorities that have come to light. Regardless, the point is that such higher priorities can indeed exist, and that's the most reasonable assumption that we can make.

    Which is perhaps the most compelling indicator that TiVo has properly prioritized the DirecTiVo very low on their work list.
     
  3. bidger

    bidger Hall Of Fame

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    My experience with cable DVRs is limited, but enough to know that if I ever did go back to cable, TiVo would have to be in the equation. Although I do hear good things about the new Cisco box TWC is deploying.

    Then, yes, I could understand how those projects would be a priority. They've never been offered exclusivity before, they had to compete with UltimateTV @ DirecTV and Comcast still offers an alternate DVR, so I can see why they'd jump all over this.
     
  4. bicker1

    bicker1 Hall Of Fame

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    I dug out the press releases for some more detail.

    RCN has declared that the TiVo Premiere is its "primary DVR platform" for 2010. It is not the only DVR that they offer, but they have placed no new orders for any other DVR since TiVo started delivering units. Also, RCN only charges a $2 per month premium for the TiVo, and they paint a very compelling picture favoring the TiVo on their website.

    Suddenlink calls TiVo "a significant part of our future plans" but they won't "abandon" their embedded base of equipment either. TiVo will also be providing STBs for Suddenlink, in addition to DVRs.
     
  5. joshjr

    joshjr Hall Of Fame

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    Do you have any proof to the contrary? You seem to have such an opinion and want to discredit everyone elses.
     
  6. bidger

    bidger Hall Of Fame

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    Uh...hey RCN, what's the "Direct TiVo Premiere"?
     
  7. tonyd79

    tonyd79 Hall Of Fame

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    Bad wording. I think they mean Tivo Premiere "direct" from Tivo.
     
  8. Steve

    Steve Well-Known Member

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    Lower...
    Speaking of the Cisco box, I missed the May announcement below. I'm guessing it's another blow to TiVo, given they were supposed to be rolling out s/w for Cox's Motorola DVR's?

    "Cisco announced today it has teamed with Cox Communications to deliver the new Cox "Plus Package," featuring high-definition Whole Home digital video recorder (DVR) service with Cisco Explorer® next-generation set-top boxes. The Cox Plus Package also includes Cox's new Trio tru2way® interactive program guide and an expanded lineup of HD channels [...]"
     
  9. bicker1

    bicker1 Hall Of Fame

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    That was definitely a blow for TiVo. ITA.
     
  10. Mike Bertelson

    Mike Bertelson 6EQUJ5 WOW! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    No “proof”, thus the reason I said it was my opinion and didn't put it forth as fact. I have no personal aversion toward it but rather it seems to make logical sense to me. ;)

    It follows that taking orders shows firm release date, a commitment, I’ll give you that. However, I believe it should be the last step in conveying to public something is being released. Before a company is actually taking orders, the stockholders and buying public should already know what’s being released and when...that is if I understood anything from my economics classes (engineer, not economist :grin:).

    You’re saying they haven’t missed a commitment and you are correct. They have, however, missed a couple of projected releases and are in danger of missing their latest. Although one could argue that Dec 31st would constitute “as soon as possible in 2010”. :sure:

    BTW, IIUC we’ll have the choice of TiVo or DirecTV firmware on existing hardware, so I’m not sure there’s anything to take pre-orders for per-se. :scratchin

    As for there being no need to “actively make [a] decision”, I guess that depends on your perspective in the situation; whether you’re a general consumer or a stockholder/investor. I’ll bet those two groups would have completely different opinions on that matter...I'm just sayin' :D

    Mike
     
  11. bicker1

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    Sure, as much as anyone could, given my long career, and the specific experiences that career afforded me. However, that's irrelevant. MicroBeta made an assertion of fact. I highlighted how that assertion was unsubstantiated. As it is, without that substantiation, there is no reason to believe that companies making prioritization decisions even after announcing strategic directions adversely impacts long-term profitability, and every reason to believe that it has no significant impact. It is really important to keep in mind just how short the attention span is for the typical American consumer. We are all affected by that general case, even if that is not something that drives our own personal purchasing decisions.
     
  12. hdtvfan0001

    hdtvfan0001 Well-Known Member

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    So in other words....no proof. :D
     
  13. bicker1

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    Yup, that's cool.

    In my opinion, it doesn't make logical sense, for the reason I mentioned in the message, above, and other reasons as well. Because folks are getting overly-defensive . . . Don't take that to mean that you don't have a right to have that opinion. You surely can. I'm just saying that I believe you're wrong, and that is why companies do what they do, because they rely on the reality rather than the explanations that perhaps best support a consumerist perspective.

    Yeah, but there is a difference between marketing for a few weeks or months in anticipation of a planned release, and making a pledge years in advance that they shall release something years later.

    Which could be the best decision for them and/or practically insignificant in the long-run. That's all I'm saying. No reason for anyone to be upset about that. (And not saying that you are upset about it.)

    Abso-friggen-lutely. And in the end, consumers matter to a for-profit business mainly because they affect long-term profitability, but that means that how they matter is directly related to how they affect long-term profitability. A bunch of consumers who were never going to pay a fair price for what a supplier was going to offer matter not one bit to that company. Indeed, we've even seen a number of cases recently where companies have determined that even some of the customers that are paying a fair price for what they're offering aren't worth keeping as customers, preferring to "dump" these low-margin customers on their competitors, to free up their resources to better service high-margin customers. These realities are definitely things that general consumers would typically prefer to overlook, but they're going to have impact on general consumers regardless.
     
  14. bicker1

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    Correct, MicroBeta had no proof for what he asserted. :D
     
  15. Stuart Sweet

    Stuart Sweet The Shadow Knows!

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    I think we can take it as a given that no one has proof of future events, given the laws of physics and causality as we know them. Please move on, politely.
     
  16. Mike Bertelson

    Mike Bertelson 6EQUJ5 WOW! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    I think you misunderstood. I clearly stated that it being “bad business for any company” was my opinion.

    I try not to put forth things as fact that I don't know to be fact. ;)

    Mike
     
  17. jacmyoung

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    I think you have proven that, it is not an assumption but a fact, the question is why did you say we should accept that putting the DirecTiVo on a much lower priority might be the best decision for TiVo?

    It is a very interesting point that the delay of DirecTiVo is not due to TiVo's inability, but a result of some strategic decision by TiVo.
     
  18. Doug Brott

    Doug Brott Lifetime Achiever DBSTalk Club

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    bicker1 I think you've generated one of the better straw man arguments I've seen in a while ..

    Let's fresh the history a bit ...

    The debate was over whether or not TiVo missed a delivery date .. Well, actually it was something that everyone accepted as fact until you entered the discussion.

    Then you started to simply ignore the facts, I presume because the missed "dates" were time frames rather than actual dates, a nice try, but the argument is still a fallacy as TiVo missed the whole time frame. Pick any date you wish in that time frame .. TiVo still missed it. You fallacy is ignoring that fact.

    Ah, then enter the straw man - "It has been interesting reading the continuing self-congratulatory litany of band-wagoneering from people seemingly trying to convince themselves that because they aren't happy with how things are, then clearly someone else did something wrong." .. Uh, you do realize that folks weren't patting themselves on the back and .. oh yeah .. What does this argument have to do with the main point of missed dates anyway? :scratchin

    Then a litany (to use your phrasing) of banter back and forth about "blame" not being necessary and "proof" not visible .. Heck, you even state that you have proof of your own but don't feel it important to share. So your getting of proof is important but giving of proof is uneeded .. Oh, what were we talking about again.

    Oh yeah, that's right .. You've used the straw man argument to prove that blame is unnecessary ergo there are no target dates missed. It's a flawed argument, but kudos to you as it was a very well constructed straw man argument.

    The facts have not changed .. bonscott laid them out for you here

    TiVo is late on this.
     
  19. hdtvfan0001

    hdtvfan0001 Well-Known Member

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    Seems awfully easy to understand.
     
  20. CuriousMark

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    Yup, he actually mentioned specs of his own free will, it was not part of the question that was asked. Tomayto, tomahto, we interpret as we each desire. My point being that it is enough to throw the long, long ago assertion into some doubt for me. You can accuse me of being just as biased as you are, that would be fair.

    I do remember the installer I dealt with last spring telling me the new TiVo box they had in their shop didn't work right for playing the MPEG-4 HD shows and that it was sent back to TiVo. I am not sure I believed him though. He told me TiVo was owned by Mitsubishi in the same breath. It does sound like alpha level units might have been in work then though.
     
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