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Discussion in 'DIRECTV General Discussion' started by Stuart Sweet, Sep 20, 2010.
FIOS overhead/SAC is insane though it's not surprising that they're holding off expansion.
It doesn't take up double the disk space and make you have to delete in two places. Doesn't the Tivo only remember the pause point from when you did the copy? Not later. So if you come back to the first room you don't have the pause point.
Even Tivo knows that "true MRV" is better.
No matter who's fault it is, they were playing catchup. If you can nitpick MRV wording, then you are completely wrong here. You could do Vidoe on Demand. Even if it took a phone call (which it did not on all cable systems.)
And, yes I do not call what Tivo has as MRV. I call it copying recordings. Gee, you could record the same thing on two Tivos independently. By your definition, that is MRV.
I konw what Tivo can do. I had an HD Tivo until March of this year and read the information on the Premiere. Their CURRENT offerings are hype. TVs can do what Tivo can do with respect to streaming. My Roku can do more than a Tivo can. They are no longer innovative. They are hype. They advertised a great new box with Premiere and didn't even deliver on a new GUI.
They are no longer leading. Sorry. You have bought into the hype.
Good luck with that. I have only two words: Comcast Tivo.
Tivo has not shown that they can deliver as a subscontractor. In fact, they have shown as much that they can not as they can.
Or maybe there is this little thing called an HD DirecTivo. How long is that taking? Even when it should be a center piece of their new approach.
As for your hope: According to some here in the know, the new DirecTivo will be little more than an HR10 for HD on a new hardware box.
But you can continue to live in Tivo's vaporware land.
Doesn't say much for their ability to act as a subcontractor. Just sayin. If they cannot keep up with changes on the DirecTV platform....
What you don't factor in is that Tivo is a very small company with few resources. They got ahead with great ideas when there was no competition. Now there is a ton of competition and much of it is much larger and can invest and keep changing the game.
They are clearly not as nimble than in years gone by.
All the time that has passed on this project reflects an inability to deliver (on time). Since this has happened before (Comcast for one)...it makes one wonder just how much longer they will survive.
That doesn't make any sense. Why would anyone want to do business with a company if they know that their best programmers are working on a single project. I wouldn't want to pay them money knowing I have no assurance of quality and time line because everyone who's any good is working on the Virgin project. I don't think even TiVo is that stupid.
There you go again ;-)
Streaming MRV saves you from a second delete, one or two remote presses, not a huge deal, but real.
Yes, if you transfer from the pause point, you can go back to the first room and pick up at the pause point.
Why are you posting misinformation as fact, when you just don't know?
If you find streaming better, then it is for you. I find copy better, it is far more flexible and also more tolerant of networking anomalies. Also, you get better trick play on the machine where you are viewing, which is not true of streaming. Copying is true MRV, so is streaming.
Nope, that is recording in two locations, just like you can also do with two HR24s. MRV is selecting the show from the remote machine and choosing to transfer and watch or choosing to stream and watch it, depending on the implementation. The work flows are almost identical. MRV is Multi-Room Viewing. Viewing a show recorded in one room in another. Whether it is streamed or copied is nowhere in the definition of those two words.
Your posts convinced me completely otherwise, I find it surprising you have any real TiVo experience based on what you have been posting. Yes, the HD and Premiere can do streaming, and the over the top offerings on some boxes like the Roku do indeed work better. I am not at all surprised that as an HD owner that you are unimpressed with the premiere. It WAS over-hyped. It is not the box many wished for, which was even above and beyond the hype. Given time to rebuild their engineering staff I suspect they will eventually get it to where it should have been on day one, but your unhappiness is understandable.
In the areas I mentioned they are still leading. Name any other DVR that can do all those things. Nope, you need other boxes to do it. A Roku or PS3 or X-box along with the DVR to get there. That's fine, there is a lot to be said for a mix and match setup. You can get exactly what you want that way.
That was truly a fail. But you can't lay that fail at TiVo's feet. The OCAP and back office are being totally redone by Comcast based on what they learned from this failure.
They are doing it well for RCN. Let's see how they do with Cox, Comcast version 2.0, Suddenlink, Virgin, DirecTV, Ono, and others. Yes, they struggled in the past, but it looks like they are finally getting it and turning around.
You and others here have said that DirecTV doesn't really care for this and only take it as way to throw to a bone TiVo's way as part of a no sue contract, right? So it is hard to be on both sides of that, either DirecTV is pushing for it come quickly or they are not. Either they are clearing roadblocks or throwing them up. Those who say DirecTV doesn't really care, can't blame TiVo for being late in the next breath, those are self contradictory positions.
Well I will hope they are wrong. If it is just that, DirecTV will probably loose me as a customer. If you are right, then it would indicate that DirecTV is the one not wanting this to succeed and making it late too.
So true. I believe Rogers lost his stars when he took over and tried to run the company at a profit, gutting engineering and hoping he could deal make his way to success.
OR it indicates that DirecTV isn't a very interested customer and has not provided stable requirements or much pressure on TiVo to perform.
Comcast bailed when they discovered that the hardware and infrastructure weren't there to make it work right. They have since hired NDS to completely redo their OCAP platform. They have hired some others to completely redo their back office infrastructure and they put their whole Tru2way project on hold while these things are being done.
OK, let's rehash your list then ...
Well, these two you don't claim they are leading so I'll assume you aren't talking about these. Plus, HD is arguably the MOST WANTED feature. It's certainly high on many people's lists.
I guess this is a matter of opinion, but IMHO, DIRECTV way outpaces any copy implementation. I'm certainly never concerned about "where" my recording is. I'm one of the first fans of the universal playlist because you simply don't have to know where it is .. you just play it from the list regardless of where you are. With the TiVo, you (at a minimum) have to manage where the recording is when you want to watch it. How many times have you been in the other room with your TiVo and gone Doh! .. I have to go back to the other room to send the recording to the room I'm in? With the HR2x, It's already in whichever room you are in via MRV. Sorry, I don't think TiVo is leading on this one.
You're right, you can't do this on HR2x .. perhaps when Nomad is available it will work. That is TBD. It's a feature for me that is way down the list, but this one .. TiVo wins.
DIRECTV2PC streaming .. full picture, full bitrate .. At worst it's a draw and I don't even know the capabilities of TiVo.
MediaShare .. OK, it may suck, but it can be done. I'll give the nod to TiVo but it's only a guess as I have no idea how the TiVo works on this one.
What can you say? :shrug: .. It's a competing business model for DIRECTV. For TiVo they don't care. Since I don't get (nor care to get) anything from Amazon it doesn't affect me, but for this item on your list .. TiVo wins.
I'm giving the nod to DIRECTV on this one .. .. Yeah, I'm hedging and its a "soon" thing, but this one goes to DIRECTV.
Worst case a wash .. if TiVo doesn't have a smartphone App .. Goes to DIRECTV
OK this is good for specialized installation, but most people are going to use the stock remote followed by the next group that uses a programmable remote (still IR/RF like stock) .. IP or Serial control will be for folks not in either of the first 2 groups. That being said, you gave this to DIRECTV, so I will to.
What is this? browsing the web (sortof) on your TV? Or is this like TV Apps? Or is this like the ScoreGuide and other specialized features that DIRECTV has with their iTV implementation? Either way, how could this be called anything other than a wash? I really can't make a determination on this item.
So even if I concede on Interactive Network Apps, here's my tally from your list:
DIRECTV - 7
TiVo - 5
(the 'draw' items get a point on both sides)
So, alas, I don't agree with your initial assertion: "In the areas I mentioned they are still leading. Name any other DVR that can do all those things. Nope, you need other boxes to do it."
I vote Doug's Post #350 POST OF THE DAY.
With TiVo you do not push a recording to another room, you pull it from the room it is in. True, if you have more than 2 TiVos you need to know which one it is on so you can pull it to the Tivo you are watching.
Of course if you have a server and FiOS, it doesn't matter which TiVo records it since all shows are sent to your server.
Now don't get me wrong I would love a universal now playing/My Shows list, but it would have to have some caveats. I only want shows I want to display. If it shows everything it won't work for my house. The same goes for remote deletion. If anyone can remote delete a recording then it is wouldn't work for me either. I should be able to mark what shows/series can and can't be remotely deleted.
Correct, we are talking about my series 2, not the HD or Premiere TiVos which do have it. If you want, we can add them in if we expand this to a general discussion, which this seems to have grown into. So make those a wash with newer TiVo hardware.
It is a pull not a push. On the now playing list of the TiVo you are sitting in front of there is a folder that contains the recordings on the other DVR. One folder per DVR if more than one is out there. Not much management, you open the folder for the room you came from, select the show and select transfer or transfer from pause point. It will then ask if you want to start watching immediately. No, this one is a wash also. Usability is nearly the same. The one minor downside for the TiVo is that at the end of the recording it asks if you want to delete, if you say yes, only the local copy is deleted. I don't think that is enough of a difference to give this one to the HR24.
Nomad should go a long way toward evening this one up.
TiVo desktop allows you to pull recordings and watch them on the PC. You can also take and watch them elsewhere since it is a local copy, DRM protected, but local. Full picture, full bitrate, playable in WMC or WMP. TiVo Desktop also serves archived content back to the DVRs so it can be used to offload the drives of the DVRs. It supports automatic copy from the DVRs and also supports pushing home media music, photos, home videos and video podcasts to the DVR all automatically. Think of it as DirecTV2PC and a Tversity rolled into a single app, but with automation.
This bullet was meant to be about the media share capabilities by the way, not the watch on the PC part, so I guess it could be split into two bullets.
Yes it sucks, but it is better than it was last month. It will eventually catch up. It is just late doing so.
TiVo desktop publishes music, photos and videos to the DVR. The DVR sees the music and photos as a folder under a music and photos menu item. Videos show up as a folder in the now playing list, just as if it were another TiVo on MRV. Folders of video podcasts or home movies can be set to auto-push to the DVR showing up as a folder of shows ready to play as if they had been recorded. When you delete one from the DVR, the next in line auto pushes to replace it. The music interface is weak, leaving you browsing folders, but there are HME applications that can use the iTunes database to give a very nice interface (what DirecTV will have when RVU gets implemented) Unfortunately the developer of that app isn't keeping up with iTunes so it isn't working right with current iTunes versions. There are HMEs that can also play music and photos together, similar to media share.
You are right. If we add the HD and Premiere TiVo model this list grows to include Pandora, YouTube, NetFlix, RSS feeds without the need of using TiVo Desktop as an intermediary the way I do with my Series 2. If DirecTV leave competing business models out of its new DVR with TiVo service that is fine. As long as something similar is available. I would hate to have to wait for RVU just to get Pandora though.
How, it doesn't exist on DirecTV at all. If I can do it with my HR24 now show me how, otherwise the nod goes to TiVo. We are voting now not soon, you gave TiVo the win on archiving, even though Nomad will perhaps change that in the future. Let's be consistent here. If we include the HD model TiVo's it is falling off a log simple and you can even use a keyboard to enter the RSS URL if you want. Don't forget this includes YouTube in an interactive interface.
TiVo has a mobile website, smart phone apps and this scheduling is available on third party websites such as Yahoo! TV and Zap2it also. If you have an HD capable TiVo this includes the ability to manage your season passes remotely too. If you get a new DVR, you can even use the remote scheduling site or app to move season passes from the old box to the new one. Not a wash, a clear win for TiVo, though web programming is not difficult and DirecTV will catch up soon enough.
Agreed. I originally gave it to DirecTV because they had it first. But TiVo (via independent third party developers) now has this in iPhone and Droid apps and I don't think DirecTV has those yet. Yes, as an app it is a novelty, but the app integrates it with the web scheduling and season pass management so you can use the iPhone or Ipad to manage those while watching TV and using the phone as a remote so you don't have to put it down to grab the regular remote. Oh and yes, the phone apps include full querty keyboard support for search entry on the HD compatible TiVo DVRs.
No, though I am aware of a third party HME that tries to present web pages. Even the author is not touting that capability.
It is probably more like these plus RVU. I can use an app to play Sudoku, another for Reversi, a third for word games. One gave me an interactive view of my iTunes library so I could find and play my music easily. It displayed cover art of the tune currently playing and allowed me to make and use playlists either at the PC or on the TV screen, it currently doesn't work with the latest versions of iTunes, but I hope the author updates it. Other examples include Youtube, Netflix, and Pandora that are seamlessly integrated into the TiVo menu structure but use this technology. Some More "apps" in the music, photos and more folder include FrameChannel which is very much like TV Apps but not an overlay, Photo browsing at Photobucket and Picasa, Home Movie browsing at One True Media, Movie Ticket browsing and purchase from Fandango, and streamer apps that can stream from a PC to an HD capable TiVo. It is an exceedingly versatile tool.
I don't know what iTV is, can you tell me where to find it and how to use it? It sure has not made itself known to me on my H24 or HR24 yet.
This won't be a wash until RVU is built in and third parties can make "apps".
So let us re-tally:
Dual Tuner and HD, two points each.
MRV, we have different preferences, at best it is a wash, one point each.
Archive and convert video for smartphones or take on the road on a PC, one point for TiVo. (it could be two if these were split up)
Watch on a PC, one point each.
Sharing home media from a PC, one point for TiVo (for now)
Over the Top services, Netflix, Amazon, Blockbuster, Pandora, YouTube, one point for TiVo
Web video download (RSS) direct to DVR and automatically updated when new videos post, one point to TiVo (unless you can show me how to do it my HR24 today)
Online scheduling, season pass management and smart phone apps for these, one point TiVo
Network remote, one point each ( I changed my mind, DirecTV was first, but TiVo has more smart phone apps out there for this now)
Interactive Network Apps (HME or RVU), one point TiVo.
DIRECTV - 5
TiVo - 11
(the 'draw' items get a point on both sides)
I have elaborated to explain further. I doubt we will ever agree on a score, but perhaps with more information now you may want to reconsider some of your votes. Also, many of these things bear much greater weight that others. For instance network remote could probably be removes, it is a hobbyist thing really. Also I left out the Querty keyboard remote that the HD capable TiVo just gained. It could be a category unto itself, and compared against triple tap. Also, HD and over the top could get higher weight or more points since they really are more desirable features. So any vote we take will be fluffy and not definitive, still it is fun to discuss this.
The point I really want to make is that TiVo leads in many areas, lags in some areas, but is definitely in the running and in my opinion, for things I care about and use daily, is still leading. So I REALLY want to to see those features that don't directly conflict with a DirecTV money making product such as PPV, included in the next DirecTV DVR with TiVo. They are great features and my HR24 does not have them now.
Nice post (#354) CuriousMark.
Right know and for the forseeable future, ultimate scorecard:
HD on D* box - yes
HD on D*TIVO - no
That about sums it up pretty well.
Not to mention there is no way of telling what features in the current TiVo's will be in the DirecTiVo. We can speculate but that's about it.
Your point is well taken. I was only talking about what I know personally and I have never tried a DirecTiVo. Loosing HD like is a real kick in the teeth. Let's hope the new box gets here soon.
So true. The people that know aren't saying. My wish list is out there.
Well, I'd say its a good bet that Amazon streaming won't make it in there.
Yeah, that’s pretty much guaranteed. Anything that’s a competing service or that could conflict with current DRM agreements that DirecTV might have are also suspect.