1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

DirecTV National HD Listing/Maps Discussion Thread (Technical - Not Anticipation)

Discussion in 'DIRECTV Programming' started by Sixto, May 29, 2012.

  1. maartena

    maartena Hall Of Fame

    2,828
    9
    Nov 1, 2010
    Yes it will. But the trials that have been done in Londen with the Olympics and in Japan aren't compressed as good as they can be. 4k resolution in essence is the same is 4 screens of 1920x1080 combined, so in theory is MPEG4 is used, a 4k channel could be configured to be more or less the same as the current usage of 4 HD channels, which with new satellites with increased capacity is something that can be overcome.

    Also, I would imagine that with new technologies being released over the next 3-5 years (realistically, I don't see the launch of 4k channels to be somewhere after 2016) the compression without visible loss of quality might be increased a little more to the extend that a CURRENT transponder, capable of doing 6 HD, or maybe even 7 HD, will be able to handle 2 4KHD channels without loss of quality.
     
  2. maartena

    maartena Hall Of Fame

    2,828
    9
    Nov 1, 2010
    Back to the current shuffling..... Sixto, what do you make of all this? Are they just throwing stuff around to re-organize things, or are they shuffling in such a way it will create some new bandwidth for new channels OR other uses such as bandwidth used for push, etc?
     
  3. Sixto

    Sixto Well-Known Member

    12,224
    94
    Nov 18, 2005
    Have figured that they're implementing new encoders, learning, re-balancing, learning, re-balancing ... tweaking ... and at the end of the day a better optimized infrastructure with open bandwidth for new stuff.
     
  4. georule

    georule Hall Of Fame

    1,603
    5
    Mar 31, 2010
    I suppose if they have quarterly engineering budgets they keep rolling out the infrastructure upgrades and optimizing delivery for it even if programming doesn't have any specific use for the increased capacity right at the moment. . . if it doesn't get used in at least a mid-term fashion, it may be a sign they've run out of those "pocket rights" I've theorized they have had at least some of and were waiting for this infrastructure upgrade to put into use.
     
  5. inkahauts

    inkahauts Well-Known Member

    22,536
    1,087
    Nov 13, 2006
    I would expect them to at least fill every spot they have available with ppv if they didn't have a channel ready to go yet. I don't see that really costing them anything to do, but could potentially bring in more money.
     
  6. JoeTheDragon

    JoeTheDragon Hall Of Fame

    4,613
    33
    Jul 21, 2008
    well there are the sports channels and RSN that directv wants to add but is waiting for a good price for them.
     
  7. cypherx

    cypherx Hall Of Fame

    3,462
    66
    Aug 27, 2010
    PA - Berks...
    There are a few movements into 1070's today. Could it be 7 HD's on a transponder for some?

    504 HBOwHD FT D12 14 1070
    509 HBOZHD FT D12 17 1070
    676 FSSWHD FT D12 18 1070

    New 1060's
    299 NIKeHD FT D12 21 1060
    522 TMAXHD FT D12 17 1060
    693 PTHD FT D12 15 1060



    The premiums compress well. HBO/Max/Showtime/Starz etc have always pushed compression to the max while doing a pretty good job at maintaining quality. I have no doubt these premiums would fit nicely in a 7 pack. FSSWHD is 720p correct? I have no doubt that the right combination of 720p networks could fit in a 7 pack either.
     
  8. HoTat2

    HoTat2 Hall Of Fame

    7,262
    179
    Nov 16, 2005
    Los...
    Just checked the latest TPN map release;

    Only D12 (103ca) has 1070 #PIDs for CONUS beams on transponders 12, 13, 14, 17, and 18.

    Tpn. 17 has seven 1080i HD channels

    [TABLE]Channel Name|CH. Number|VPID
    ShWmHD |552|1010
    STZKHD|525|1020
    HBSeHD|503|1030
    SHNXHD|551|1040
    MGMHD|562|1050
    TMAXHD|522|1060
    HBOZHD|509|1070[/TABLE]

    The others all have 6 HD channels plus one MPEG-4 SD one.

    So if the TPN map is accurate, I guess they've broken the 6 HD level for CONUS channels and with all 1080i ones to boot.

    If only for one transponder so far.
     
  9. RAD

    RAD Well-Known Member

    16,452
    129
    Aug 5, 2002
    Dripping...
    Since those are all 24FPS movie channels maybe that's how they can do 7 on a single TP?
     
  10. cypherx

    cypherx Hall Of Fame

    3,462
    66
    Aug 27, 2010
    PA - Berks...
    Those channels do compress well. Blue Ridge Cable is getting like 6-8 mbps on the premium multiplex hd's (like HBO2 HD, HBO Signature HD, etc..) Thats MPEG2 on switched digital video. Imagine if they went to MPEG4.

    Even back in the day when HD on cable was only paired 2 to a QAM for 19.2 mbps rate, I was pulling 12-15 mbps for Showtime. Much less than the 19.2mbps allocated. For MPEG2 those channels always took a little less than others. So again in the MPEG4 world where the compression is even better, I wouldn't doubt 7 1080i's on one transponder.
     
  11. HoTat2

    HoTat2 Hall Of Fame

    7,262
    179
    Nov 16, 2005
    Los...
    Possible;

    In fact I'd say its most likely what you say;

    Though I would like to wait for P. Smith to chime in here with the current code rate for D12's CONUS transponder 17 to see if its still the same standard 2/3 rate for the CONUS beam channels to know for sure.
     
  12. P Smith

    P Smith Mr. FixAnything

    21,983
    177
    Jul 25, 2002
    W.Mdtrn Sea
    I'll check later the D12 tp17, but I did mention: planned capacity is 8 HD channels per Ka tpn according PID assignment.
     
  13. cypherx

    cypherx Hall Of Fame

    3,462
    66
    Aug 27, 2010
    PA - Berks...
    Right, that is PID assignment, but what is the bandwidth?

    No saying they won't do 7 HD's + 1 SD. Or 6 HD's + 2 SD... or any other combination.
     
  14. HoTat2

    HoTat2 Hall Of Fame

    7,262
    179
    Nov 16, 2005
    Los...
    The bandwidth is always the same;

    36 MHz wide transponders on the Ka band birds, which allow for a SR of ~30 MegaBaud. This results in data throughput of ~39 mb/s (QPSK and a 2/3 code rate).

    You may play with the numbers from the basic fomula here;

    http://www.dbstalk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=28211&d=1327482283

    The thing is you have to increase compression to maintain the same throughput rate when adding additional channels.

    If DIRECTV does not increase compression, then they must increase throughput by going to a higher modulation level and/or a reduced code rate.

    Both of which mean higher PFDs are needed. .
     
  15. georule

    georule Hall Of Fame

    1,603
    5
    Mar 31, 2010
    Interesting. Yes, I was going to ask if all of them had an mpeg4 SD.

    So 7 HD on one TP. I wonder if that's at least as much for testing/experience purposes as anything? It wouldn't seem like they have a functional need to be that aggressive right now with so many more TP with new encoders still to roll out.
     
  16. cypherx

    cypherx Hall Of Fame

    3,462
    66
    Aug 27, 2010
    PA - Berks...
    Well I checked all these channels:
    ShWmHD 552 1010
    STZKHD 525 1020
    HBSeHD 503 1030
    SHNXHD 551 1040
    MGMHD 562 1050
    TMAXHD 522 1060
    HBOZHD 509 1070


    They all look fine to me. I'm not sitting inches from the screen. At normal viewing distances the HD clarity looks great.
     
  17. Sixto

    Sixto Well-Known Member

    12,224
    94
    Nov 18, 2005
    Been posting in the gct thread, but I'm starting to think that something is going on with D10.

    I don't have the redirection flag fix in place yet, so thus been looking more at the spreadsheet and D10 certainly looks to be getting emptied, unless the data is not all there.
     
  18. RAD

    RAD Well-Known Member

    16,452
    129
    Aug 5, 2002
    Dripping...
    That doesn't appers to bode well then for much more, if any, HD until D14 goes up. Wonder if D10's problems are really that bad?
     
  19. Lord Vader

    Lord Vader Supreme Member DBSTalk Club

    8,722
    41
    Sep 20, 2004
    Galactic Empire
    Hmmm. Could D10 be slowly dying?
     
  20. Sixto

    Sixto Well-Known Member

    12,224
    94
    Nov 18, 2005
    Yep, I'm starting to wonder if D10 finally is getting worse, or if they're just planning for worst case. Or it could simply be that they're upgrading encoders and it's just a coincidence.

    I have one bug in my data which I haven't fixed yet, this redirection flag issue, which causes my data to sometimes have D10 and D11 swapped.

    It hasn't been that big a deal to rush to fix because I was mostly concerned with looking daily for new HD channels, and we have gct spreadsheet weekly as our reference document.

    But now that they're moving channels almost daily I really need to get to the bottom of this, because gct's latest spreadsheet which has the redirection fix in place, shows almost everything important now off of D10.
     

Share This Page