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DIRECTV Satellite Discussion D-15 @103W

122K views 811 replies 71 participants last post by  Laxguy 
#1 ·
#4 ·
Interesting, so it is going to 103 after all, giving them 4 satellites at that location.

The application mentions the RDBS capability, but requests only launch but not operational authority for it. So we'll have to wait longer to find out when and what it will be used for.

It looks like this satellite will be capable of filling any role with Directv as far as CONUS capability. It can transmit the full 32 Ku transponders, the full 24 Ka hi transponders, the full 24 RDBS transponders, and the first 14 Ka lo transponders, which are the only ones used for CONUS Ka lo from both 99 and 103.

I wonder how many transponders it can operate at once? There are already other satellites handling the entire Ka spectrum from 103, but the application is for operational authority for Ka, not for RDBS. If it broadcasts Ka, then it would be taking over some of D10 or D12's transponders. I wonder how many Ka transponders it can power while still being able to power all 24 RDBS transponders? Hopefully more than zero :)
 
#5 ·
So they're overproviding bandwidth at 103?

1). Backup capacity?

2). Could they do VoD (well, Video on Demand in a Little While) from there on some other frequencies?
 
#6 ·
Isn't it to replace the defective D10?

Sent from my Galaxy S5
 
#7 ·
georule said:
2). Could they do VoD (well, Video on Demand in a Little While) from there on some other frequencies?
VOD is not feasible via satellite
 
#8 ·
slice1900 said:
Interesting, so it is going to 103 after all, giving them 4 satellites at that location.

The application mentions the RDBS capability, but requests only launch but not operational authority for it. So we'll have to wait longer to find out when and what it will be used for.

It looks like this satellite will be capable of filling any role with Directv as far as CONUS capability. It can transmit the full 32 Ku transponders, the full 24 Ka hi transponders, the full 24 RDBS transponders, and the first 14 Ka lo transponders, which are the only ones used for CONUS Ka lo from both 99 and 103.

I wonder how many transponders it can operate at once? There are already other satellites handling the entire Ka spectrum from 103, but the application is for operational authority for Ka, not for RDBS. If it broadcasts Ka, then it would be taking over some of D10 or D12's transponders. I wonder how many Ka transponders it can power while still being able to power all 24 RDBS transponders? Hopefully more than zero :)
Assuming it's 24 and not actually 18 transponders for RDBS. As I mentioned on the other thread there's some confusion there.

Interesting though, no LiL spotbeams for this bird, Guess they figure the existing Ka hi and lo ones from 99 and Ka lo ones from 103 (assuming SW1 will be relegated to backup/retired) are sufficient.

Also, only CONUS beam (and spot nationals for HI and PR) capability for all 32 transponders of the DBS 12/17 GHz payload.

What purpose would only CONUS capability for DBS have for the SD LiL spotbeam frequencies should it be called into duty at 101 or 119?
 
#9 ·
damondlt said:
Isn't it to replace the defective D10?

Sent from my Galaxy S5
Whatever the issue was with D10, it was with spotbeams only, and it was "ameloriated" so there's no reason to replace D10, and certainly no reason to replace it for CONUS which is all that D15 is capable of.
 
#10 ·
HoTat2 said:
Assuming it's 24 and not actually 18 transponders for RDBS. As I mentioned on the other thread there's some confusion there.

Interesting though, no LiL spotbeams for this bird, Guess they figure the existing Ka hi and lo ones from 99 and Ka lo ones from 103 (assuming SW1 will be relegated to backup/retired) are sufficient.

Also, only CONUS beam (and spot nationals for HI and PR) capability for all 32 transponders of the DBS 12/17 GHz payload.

What purpose would only CONUS capability for DBS have for the SD LiL spotbeam frequencies should it be called into duty at 101 or 119?
Yes, that's true, I forgot the information about both D14 and D15's number of RDBS transponders is conflicting. However, I suppose whether it has 18 or 24 transponders is academic as far as D15 being able to fulfill any need for CONUS, since 18 is the highest number of full 36 MHz wide transponders licensed for use in the US.

Seems a bit early to retire SW1 and SW2, they are only nine years old, after all. According to that Directv satellite fleet chart (below) they have several years of design life remaining, along with fuel life lasting beyond 2020. If they decide to relocate them, maybe they'll go to 101 and take over some of the Ka duty to increase the lifespan of D8 and D9S? Does anyone know if they can do Ka lo, or are they Ka hi only?

Not sure what your question means about the spotbeam frequencies for 101 and 119. Between the two, transponder/frequency is used for CONUS, so it has to support all frequencies to be capable of covering either location. Besides, just because Directv uses spots for certain frequencies from those locations now, doesn't mean they can't be converted to CONUS at some future date.

BTW, I guess this chart answers the question of when Directv originally planned to have D14 enter service - this was from the investor day after they announced D14 and D15 a few years ago, and it shows D14 in service a year ago! :righton:

 
#11 ·
slice1900 said:
Whatever the issue was with D10, it was with spotbeams only, and it was "ameloriated" so there's no reason to replace D10, and certainly no reason to replace it for CONUS which is all that D15 is capable of.
Not true, it burned through much more of its fuel to date than expected because if the issues.
There has been multiple post about this in the past.

Sent from my Galaxy S5
 
#12 ·
Perhaps D15 is going to 103 temporarily (maybe to experiment with RDBS). DirecTV-4S is near EOL. D15 can handle the CONUS load on 4S, releasing enough power on 9S to power all of its spot beams.
 
#13 ·
Diana C said:
Perhaps D15 is going to 103 temporarily (maybe to experiment with RDBS). DirecTV-4S is near EOL. D15 can handle the CONUS load on 4S, releasing enough power on 9S to power all of its spot beams.
Except that according the Gary's TPN maps, D4S' CONUS beam tps. haven't been used for some time now. Only it's spotbeam tps. show as possibly sharing the load with D9S.

But all CONUS beam even numbered tps. (LHCP) at 101 are listed as coming from D9S already for a long time.
 
#14 ·
Also of Note:

Minor correction to the application, but since they (DIRECTV) did it twice, I take it as a definite error and not merely a single typo.

The Ka-lo uplink band for D15 listed as "29.25-25.29 GHz" mentioned twice in section 5.1 of the application is incorrect.

As the number marked in red should have been a "9" for "29.25-29.29 GHz," which corresponds to its stated downlink counterpart for that band of 18.55-18.59 GHz.
 
#15 ·
HoTat2 said:
Except that according the Gary's TPN maps, D4S' CONUS beam tps. haven't been used for some time now. Only it's spotbeam tps. show as possibly sharing the load with D9S.

But all CONUS beam even numbered tps. (LHCP) at 101 are listed as coming from D9S already for a long time.
Okay...didn't know that. I used to know what satellite and transponder any given channel came from back in the day, but I haven't kept with which satellites are doing what.
 
#16 ·
slice1900 said:
... Seems a bit early to retire SW1 and SW2, they are only nine years old, after all. According to that Directv satellite fleet chart (below) they have several years of design life remaining, along with fuel life lasting beyond 2020. If they decide to relocate them, maybe they'll go to 101 and take over some of the Ka duty to increase the lifespan of D8 and D9S? Does anyone know if they can do Ka lo, or are they Ka hi only?
Yeah ...

The Spaceways were given a limited Ka-lo band capability as an afterthought to their original design. As part of what was called a "Potter Horn retrofit," comprising two 165 MHz wide transponders on a nationwide beam for back-hauling purposes.

Chart summarizing the FCC filed specifications for it here;

Font Rectangle Parallel Number Pattern


Obviously they can't and therefore haven't been used at their current orbital positions ever since the presence of the Ka-lo band birds D10, D11, and D12 (it's spotbeam payload that is).

Not sure what your question means about the spotbeam frequencies for 101 and 119. Between the two, transponder/frequency is used for CONUS, so it has to support all frequencies to be capable of covering either location. Besides, just because Directv uses spots for certain frequencies from those locations now, doesn't mean they can't be converted to CONUS at some future date.
You're right;

I guess we could say D15 can be used to replace or supplement any *nationwide* transponder requirements for Ka hi/lo or Ku DBS bands :)
 

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#17 ·
damondlt said:
Not true, it burned through much more of its fuel to date than expected because if the issues.
There has been multiple post about this in the past.
I don't remember anything about burning through more fuel. The chart showing Directv's satellite fleet doesn't indicate anything about that, unless the fuel usage is a second problem beyond that spotbeam issue they "ameloriated".
 
#18 ·
Diana C said:
Perhaps D15 is going to 103 temporarily (maybe to experiment with RDBS). DirecTV-4S is near EOL. D15 can handle the CONUS load on 4S, releasing enough power on 9S to power all of its spot beams.
When a satellite is going to a location temporarily, I believe the application will state that. At least I remember seeing a filing for temporary authority for D11 or D12 to go to some oddball location after launch and conduct RDBS testing before moving to its final location.

They probably don't need to do any testing for RDBS from 103 (beyond whatever they'd do in preparation to start using it "for real") since D12 has 4 RDBS spotbeams. Not sure if they're still active or if they are/were ever used for anything beyond testing.

I keep hoping we'll get some further information that will let us know whether they'll be using CONUS RDBS from 99 and/or 103 for customer content. They'll have full CONUS capability from both locations after D14 and D15 are launched, but still no clue on what it will be used for.
 
#19 ·
slice1900 said:
I don't remember anything about burning through more fuel. The chart showing Directv's satellite fleet doesn't indicate anything about that, unless the fuel usage is a second problem beyond that spotbeam issue they "ameloriated".
Though I do wonder how accurate this chart would be for D10's estimated longevity if you factor in the failure of its primary propulsion system and is now permanently on its back-up one?

Or is it even possible to factor in something like this into such a time estimate for the future life of the satellite?

Though DIRECTV did mention a while ago it is functioning fine on the back-up.
 
#20 ·
The Beam Footprint Maps for D15 are now posted; see

Forum: Directv Tips and Resources
Thread: Interactive Beam Footprint Library

D15 Footprints are in Post #128.

some comments from spear61:

A total of just 7 Beam Footprints

3 Ku Beams not licensed for 103W (for use at 101, 110 or 119W )
1 BSS Beam previously licensed
3 Ka Beams

Each Beam (Ku, Ka or BSS) can support up to 100 HD Channels
 
#21 ·
slice1900 said:
I don't remember anything about burning through more fuel. The chart showing Directv's satellite fleet doesn't indicate anything about that, unless the fuel usage is a second problem beyond that spotbeam issue they "ameloriated".
They had to move Directv 10 out of its orbital location and then move it back in position during the repairs.
 
#22 ·
damondlt said:
They had to move Directv 10 out of its orbital location and then move it back in position during the repairs.
Ah OK, I remember that. I have no idea how much fuel that used up compared to the normal orbital adjustments. Would it reduce the fuel life by three months or three years? Maybe someone like LameLefty might know?

Since all the other satellites seem to have fuel life well beyond their design life, I would assume the same would be true of D10, until this unplanned fuel usage occurred. So it depends how many months/years of normal operation fuel was consumed in that maneuver.
 
#24 ·
inkahauts said:
That really, based on what has been reported via investor meeting etc,, wasn't the big issue. The big issue now is it's primary propulsion system has failed and it's using its backup.
yes I do remember that too. I know there are some issues that have effected the life span of D10.
Also space way 1 and 2 are getting close to their projected life span. 2017 and 18 is only 3 and 4 years away.
D15 Won't be launched anytime soon.

Sent from my Galaxy S5
 
#25 ·
I guess with D10 it's a question of how far you want to press your luck driving on the spare tire.

With the number of birds that have never had to fail over to the backup I'm guessing it's not too likely to have the backup fail as well, but one of the rules I try to live by is Don't make any bets you can't afford to lose. How do you weigh the potential risk and exposure against the mechanics and expense of the resolution? An outright loss of D10's capabilities with the existing fleet's capabilities would appear to be catastrophic. I don't see them being able to absorb that with existing resources and I believe that it is something to be proactively acted upon and avoided but not necessarily a panic item either.

Now is the backup propulsion system a full-sized spare or just a "donut"?
 
#26 ·
HarleyD said:
I guess with D10 it's a question of how far you want to press your luck driving on the spare tire.

With the number of birds that have never had to fail over to the backup I'm guessing it's not too likely to have the backup fail as well, but one of the rules I try to live by is Don't make any bets you can't afford to lose. How do you weigh the potential risk and exposure against the mechanics and expense of the resolution? An outright loss of D10's capabilities with the existing fleet's capabilities would appear to be catastrophic. I don't see them being able to absorb that with existing resources and I believe that it is something to be proactively acted upon and avoided but not necessarily a panic item either.

Now is the backup propulsion system a full-sized spare or just a "donut"?
I have a feeling they could absorb it. It would likely just cost them some of the life left in the other satelites. Just a hunch, but... ;)
 
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