Short story - I'd like a Genie but I can't use an HR34 because my installation is on an inside wall so I can't get a hardwired internet connection to my rcvr. As it stands, I had to run the coaxes up through the floor to feed my HR 22. Yes, I know about the Cinema Bridge but that's not what I want. I'm the customer, I want an HR 44.
A few weeks ago, a CSR told me that right after Memorial Day, I could call in and specifically order an HR 44 and I could get one. I called today. A very nice CSR told me, no, there was no guarantee I'd get an HR 44. Place an order and I might get a 44 but it might be a 34. We chatted for a bit and he told me that thanks to my account status, there'd be no upcharge to go to a Genie but, again, no guarantees. Well, I said, I can wait until the 34s run out and then order a 44. He pointed out that it might be a while - they sent out 22s for a long time after the 24s became available and I know for a fact that's true. In fact, I got a replacement 22 two days before the Super Bowl this year. 34s will be coming back to DTV and getting refurbed and then shipped out for years. Then the CSR very politely pointed out that Solid Signal have the 44s in stock. I thanked him and hung up and an hour later I got an email from Weaknees; they have 44s, too. Ready to ship.
DirecTV will sell HR44s to Solid Signal and to Weaknees but not to me. I'm not sure what I'm going to do but I do know this sucks out loud.
This whole conversation cracks me up, who really cares how much it costs to design, build, market, support (practically forever) and deliver an HR44? If you want one then get one, pay the price and enjoy it. Don't we make decisions every day that take cost vs. need/want into consideration? I do. Would you like it if the company you worked for decided that people that have nothing to do with your expertise got to decide how much money you could make? Personally I want to see DIRECTV make money, if they don't I will have to look other places for service. If I get to the point where the service is no longer worth the price I pay then I will move on.
If you keep your iPhone for 3 years and it stops working will Apple send you another one for the cost of shipping? What about after 5 or 7 years.... Just sayin.
Yes, unlocked was the wrong word to use. Unsubsidized (which also includes unlocked) - "full retail". My point was more about "Apple" being a premium in anything. They have larger than normal profit margins ("brand tax"). That's why they are so rich - huge margins and very popular products.
Bottom line is that full retail for an iPhone is not comparable to full retail for anything from DirecTV. Everybody is out for maximum profit but DirecTV cannot get anywhere close to what Apple does.
Do you think the "build cost" of a Mercedes is substantially more than a Ford or Chevy for a similar vehicle? Commensurate with the difference in retail price? Not a chance.
Actually no, unlocked and unsubsidized (aka no commitment) are two completely different skews where apple is concerned, a no-commitment iPhone is still locked to ATT's network, to get it unlocked you need to submit the paperwork to ATT to unlocked it from their network, a unlocked no-commitment phone is the same thing, but it is already factory unlocked, they had two completely different skew and part numbers.
I suspect that the build cost of a Mercedes is actually higher then the build cost of ford or a Chevy, just like I an pretty sure the build cost of iPhone is a lot less then that of a DirecTV DVR simplify because of the location they are assembled at, the locations that manufacturer the majority of the components and the general pay scale that the work forces in china are given. There is information that a 16GB iPhone 4S is 188.00 for parts and 8.00 for manufacturing, for the 5 the parts are 199.00 and the same 8.00 for the manufacturing cost, retail cost of the phone is 699.00
Excuse me? A HRxx is LEASED where an phone you PURCHASE it! Not the same and you know that, just saying... :nono2: :bang
And dtv will replace a broken unit for shipping generally because its leased. They don't make you pay for a new one. If you want a true upgrade, like HR24 to genie they might, just as a cell company does. They don't even swap phones if you break yours unless you have insurance. He had a valid point abut neither company giving you the latest for free just cause someone wants it.
I suspect that the build cost of a Mercedes is actually higher then the build cost of ford or a Chevy, just like I an pretty sure the build cost of iPhone is a lot less then that of a DirecTV DVR simplify because of the location they are assembled at, the locations that manufacturer the majority of the components and the general pay scale that the work forces in china are given. There is information that a 16GB iPhone 4S is 188.00 for parts and 8.00 for manufacturing, for the 5 the parts are 199.00 and the same 8.00 for the manufacturing cost, retail cost of the phone is 699.00
Why? It sounds like you're assuming no Directv receivers are made in China. Do you know that for a fact? Do you realize it isn't just iPhones - the majority of cell phones are assembled in China. Even companies that own their own manufacturing facilities like Nokia and Samsung have been hugely expanding their contract manufacturing in China the last few years. Well beyond what is needed to serve the Chinese market. Even some of their flagship products are made there. Why? Because the wages are much higher in Finland and South Korea. It isn't just phones, of course: computers for Dell & HP, TVs for many major brands, Xbox 360 & Wii, even high end networking gear from Cisco are all made by Foxconn in China.
The list of companies using other contract manufacturers in China would be so long it would be easier to make a list of CE products that are not made in China. Maybe none of Directv's OEMs makes their stuff there, but I doubt they're being made in a country that pays what we in the US would consider a decent wage. It isn't as though an HR44 has $100+ of manufacturing cost built into it. No way.
And why do you think the components are made somewhere else? What is special about the components Directv is using that they can't possibly be coming from the places iPhone components come from? The CPU in an iPhone comes from Austin, Texas (Samsung plant) the cellular radio is Broadcom, so made by TSMC (Taiwan) The flash & RAM, probably Korea or Japan. The SoC and satellite tuner in a Directv DVR are probably also made by TSMC, the hard drive would be made in Thailand, Indonesia or Singapore, the flash and RAM, same places as Apple's.
Both of them are mostly of Asian origin. Hardly surprising, as the world's electronics supply chain is based there. It would be almost impossible for Directv or anyone else to build a CE product like a DVR, or to build a cell phone, without using any parts from Asia.
This might sound unamerican but I rather have parts and products made in China,Japan etc than in the U.S,
Their quality and in some products reliability seems better.
This might sound unamerican but I rather have parts and products made in China,Japan etc than in the U.S,
Their quality and in some products reliability seems better.
The craftsmanship of other countries isn't superior to American craftsmanship. Product quality is dictated by the manufacturer's design specifications. Where those products are built is dictated by labor costs. Example: I use Polk Audio speakers with my Home Theater systems. They are designed and engineered in the USA and assembled in China. The Japanese do the same. My Sony equipment is designed and engineered in Japan and assembled in Malaysia.
This might sound unamerican but I rather have parts and products made in China,Japan etc than in the U.S,
Their quality and in some products reliability seems better.
You're "paying retail" for a leased receiver, so every time you activate a leased receiver, the commitment restarts.
The only way not to is to buy a receiver "outright", since owned receivers don't restart a commitment.
Doesn't anyone remember the DTVPal DVR? $250 list price for a fully functional, 2-tuner DVR. And this was in 2009, ancient history in the computing world, and it was a product that was not subsidized by programming fees or contracts. Even the guide information was free. Yeah, it only had a 250GB hard drive, but prices have come down to the point where a 1TB would be cheaper now. I agree with the above claim that the satellite tuner is the only part that *has* to be unique to a DirecTV DVR. The rest can be done with standard equipment that is made in bulk. We're really struggling to come up with a $700 price tag for the DVR.
A decade ago, the cost to acquire a single new customer was around $750. It's probably higher today. But that included all the advertising and installation costs, not just the equipment. And we have to include the fact that DirecTV, by leasing the receivers rather than selling them, can claim depreciation costs over time, which greatly reduces their tax burden, and subsequently, their real cost.
The Tivo Premiere 4, two tuners, has an MSRP at $249.
The Tivo Premiere 4XL, four tuners, has an MSRP at $399.
Add $100 for installation, which Tivo doesn't have to worry about, and it's still nowhere near $700. That's because for various reasons, as you said, D* doesn't WANT you to own the box.
Don't you also need to buy a Tivo subscription for full functionality? Either monthly or lifetime? I don't know for sure but if so that needs to be factored into price as it probably helps to subsidize the hardware costs as well.
Don't you also need to buy a Tivo subscription for full functionality? Either monthly or lifetime? I don't know for sure but if so that needs to be factored into price as it probably helps to subsidize the hardware costs as well.
The 'mirroring' fee is also a subsidy for DirecTV. Even if you do own your receiver you still have to pay monthly for each receiver.. Forever.... In my case, including the initial 'lease' fee, I have paid about $1200 for 3 HR24s. That will continue to increase each month that I continue to subscribe. If/when I cancel DirecTV will 'lease' those 3 HR24s to others and make even more money off of them...
The lease model that DirecTV uses is skewed in their favor and makes them more money than if people just flat out owned their receivers.
The craftsmanship of other countries isn't superior to American craftsmanship. Product quality is dictated by the manufacturer's design specifications. Where those products are built is dictated by labor costs. Example: I use Polk Audio speakers with my Home Theater systems. They are designed and engineered in the USA and assembled in China. The Japanese do the same. My Sony equipment is designed and engineered in Japan and assembled in Malaysia.
If you believe that, I have swamp land to sell you. Large scale American craftsmanship is down the drain because of the of several reasons.
#1 Americans don't give a CRAP anymore
#2 Americans want higher wages and companies wont pay it because the consumer won't.
I will give you an example of a business I have been in for 15 years.
The Bike industry. To keep it simple. best bikes craft wise and engineering came for the US. To save labor, US companies move to Taiwan to save money. They then became BETTER than the US is welding and in Carbon Fiber production, besides Africa, yes, Africa via France.
Now Taiwan wants higher wages and stuff moved to China. They are now producing frames at Taiwanese and US quality. Composites are getting VERY close as well as their engineering.
Can the US produce better quality stuff than Asia, at similar cost to consumers in the future? We will see when Apple starts building Macs here!
True, but at the same time is less for the new customer.
I'm still burning from the POS Sony HD receiver I bought for $800 to come to DirecTV. 2-3 years later it was useless with the move to MPEG-4.
I'm not a fan of the up front lease fee, or for that matter the mirroring fees. It doesn't cost DirecTV "anything" for me to have more than one working receiver.
I do need to point out that the returned receivers don't go straight back to another customer though.
They all go through a refurbishing process, which does cost DirecTV, so it isn't exactly "rinse and repeat" over and over.
Any company that isn't "skewing in their favor", either isn't going to be in business long, or has to be making it up somewhere else.
I've never had a TiVo, but the old HR10-250 was expensive and TiVo had their nice monthly revenue feed, which seems to be how everyone is moving to. No longer is it enough to sell a product/device, but it has to come with the recurring revenue feed.
You may be old enough to remember the phone company wanting to charge $0.50/month to "protect/service" the wiring in your home.
As long as I can remember, it never was a problem, but imagine the returns on that $0.50/customer.
DirecTV did and charged us $3/month for MRV.
"Millions per month" to the bottom line, is just too hard to pass up.
Um, yes.... As I have stated many times DirecTV is in business to make money and they do make money. I only used the word 'skewed' because there are many people here that seem to think DirecTV is doing us a favor with their 'lease' program.
DirecTV doesn't need to be defended in everything they do. We don't need to 'pretend' they are taking a loss on their over-priced under-powered receivers. DirecTV makes money every month on nearly every receiver they 'lease' and that is as it should be... Doesn't change the fact that they should make it an option for those of us who wish to 'buy' the receiver we want and not have to play games to do it.
True, but at the same time is less for the new customer.
I'm still burning from the POS Sony HD receiver I bought for $800 to come to DirecTV. 2-3 years later it was useless with the move to MPEG-4.
I'm not a fan of the up front lease fee, or for that matter the mirroring fees. It doesn't cost DirecTV "anything" for me to have more than one working receiver.
I do need to point out that the returned receivers don't go straight back to another customer though.
They all go through a refurbishing process, which does cost DirecTV, so it isn't exactly "rinse and repeat" over and over.
Any company that isn't "skewing in their favor", either isn't going to be in business long, or has to be making it up somewhere else.
I've never had a TiVo, but the old HR10-250 was expensive and TiVo had their nice monthly revenue feed, which seems to be how everyone is moving to. No longer is it enough to sell a product/device, but it has to come with the recurring revenue feed.
You may be old enough to remember the phone company wanting to charge $0.50/month to "protect/service" the wiring in your home.
As long as I can remember, it never was a problem, but imagine the returns on that $0.50/customer.
DirecTV did and charged us $3/month for MRV.
"Millions per month" to the bottom line, is just too hard to pass up.
I've also been on both sides. I paid $2000 for HR10-250s that didn't even last 3 years...
As for their 'refurb' process goes - they must not pay much to have it done. I once received a beat up, scratched up, cigarette smoke smelling dented HR20 to replace a failed HR22. Looked like someone had used vice-grips to open it up as each screw in the back and circular scratches/dents around it from twisting the 'security' screws out. Lucky for me it was right as the DECA adapters where released and the support people couldn't figure out how to make it work on the HR20-100's. After I sent it back I found out about the 'splitter' fix to make the DECA adapter work...
Again - I'm not complaining about DirecTV making money. I guess I'm complaining about the people trying to convince us all that DirecTV is doing us a favor by not 'selling' us receivers.
If you believe that, I have swamp land to sell you. Large scale American craftsmanship is down the drain because of the of several reasons.
#1 Americans don't give a CRAP anymore
#2 Americans want higher wages and companies wont pay it because the consumer won't.
I will give you an example of a business I have been in for 15 years.
The Bike industry. To keep it simple. best bikes craft wise and engineering came for the US. To save labor, US companies move to Taiwan to save money. They then became BETTER than the US is welding and in Carbon Fiber production, besides Africa, yes, Africa via France.
Now Taiwan wants higher wages and stuff moved to China. They are now producing frames at Taiwanese and US quality. Composites are getting VERY close as well as their engineering.
Can the US produce better quality stuff than Asia, at similar cost to consumers in the future? We will see when Apple starts building Macs here!
It may not be a fair comparison, because Apple is most likely going to be using a highly automated factory for the US assembly of Macs. The quality of an automated factory should be pretty equal no matter where it is (modulo whatever human element of QC there is)
As for how it compares to the current Macs that are assembled in Ireland and China (probably other places too, don't know offhand) is another matter. Theoretically automation should improve the assembly, but its possible it may take a bit of time to get all the robots tuned just right!
Um, yes.... As I have stated many times DirecTV is in business to make money and they do make money. I only used the word 'skewed' because there are many people here that seem to think DirecTV is doing us a favor with their 'lease' program.
Oh, right, Mike. Give us three names of those who've so indicated.
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