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DirecTV will sell HR 44s to Solid Signal and Weaknees - but not me

Discussion in 'DIRECTV HD DVR/Receiver Discussion' started by FarNorth, May 29, 2013.

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  1. Jun 2, 2013 #141 of 263
    wingrider01

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    Unlocked iPhones are not selling at a premium price, you can go to any Apple retail outlet and purchase them for the exact same price as a contract free iPhone, there is no surcharge on the unlocked device. With a GSM based iPhone 5 that will work on any GSM network you have to specifically request the unlocked version, with the advent of the Verizon CDMA iPhone 5 they are already unlocked on the CDMA side so you do not need to be specific on requesting. It seems you are mixing subsidized with unsubsidized pricing. Apple, like DirecTV is not incorporated as a not for profit organization just like ford, chevy, Mercedes Benz - or do you think it really costs Ford 45,000 to make a Mustang GT with the 600HP motor?
     
  2. Jun 2, 2013 #142 of 263
    Scott Kocourek

    Scott Kocourek Well-Known Member

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    This whole conversation cracks me up, who really cares how much it costs to design, build, market, support (practically forever) and deliver an HR44? If you want one then get one, pay the price and enjoy it. Don't we make decisions every day that take cost vs. need/want into consideration? I do. Would you like it if the company you worked for decided that people that have nothing to do with your expertise got to decide how much money you could make? Personally I want to see DIRECTV make money, if they don't I will have to look other places for service. If I get to the point where the service is no longer worth the price I pay then I will move on.

    If you keep your iPhone for 3 years and it stops working will Apple send you another one for the cost of shipping? What about after 5 or 7 years.... Just sayin.
     
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  3. Jun 2, 2013 #143 of 263
    unixguru

    unixguru Godfather

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    Yes, unlocked was the wrong word to use. Unsubsidized (which also includes unlocked) - "full retail". My point was more about "Apple" being a premium in anything. They have larger than normal profit margins ("brand tax"). That's why they are so rich - huge margins and very popular products.

    Bottom line is that full retail for an iPhone is not comparable to full retail for anything from DirecTV. Everybody is out for maximum profit but DirecTV cannot get anywhere close to what Apple does.

    Do you think the "build cost" of a Mercedes is substantially more than a Ford or Chevy for a similar vehicle? Commensurate with the difference in retail price? Not a chance.
     
  4. Jun 2, 2013 #144 of 263
    Laxguy

    Laxguy Honi Soit Qui Mal Y Pense.

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    Yes, absolutely, for many values of substantially more, but I don't see either American company making a similar vehicle to high end Mercedes'.
     
  5. Jun 2, 2013 #145 of 263
    unixguru

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    They can afford to send you a replacement because you are paying every month to "lease" a product that was completely paid for, with profit, long ago. Sure there is no specific line item on the bill but it is buried in the charges on there.

    When a model is first released I'm betting they make a profit on day 1 because of the high purchase-to-lease price. Then they collect every month making far more.

    If you wait awhile until the price drops - to free if a new customer - then they need a couple of years (contract term) to "profit" from the device. Then they collect every month making more.

    A typical consumer that never pays anything for a device keeps it for far more than the contract term. Yeh, 5 or 7 years, that's a hell of a lot of "profit" that easily covers the few junky refurbs they have to send out.

    What is the trend in build cost for each new generation? It sure isn't going up. They are driving down the build cost. Perfect example - the HR44 has an external power supply - cheaper! Won't be long before the HR24 is replaced with an external power model.

    What is the functional improvement from generation to generation? Not much. I had an HR20 and an HR24. Sure, the 24 was faster - but not 2X. More space. Lost OTA. But space and speed don't cost anything from one generation to the next. I shudder to think how much that HR20 cost me keeping it until it became "uncollectable".

    The essence of this thread is the lack of transparency and the stupid policies leading to unnecessary games to get a reasonable outcome.

    The same complaints about the cell phone business is starting to have an impact - possibly leading to the end of subsidizing.
     
  6. Jun 2, 2013 #146 of 263
    unixguru

    unixguru Godfather

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    So the profit margin is similar?

    The more "premium" (perceived) the higher the margin.

    Even within Apple.

    iPhone 5 16GB $207 build, $649 retail, margin 214%
    iPhone 5 32GB $217 build, $749 retail, margin 245%
    iPhone 5 65GB $238 build, $849 retail, margin 256%

    Apple ~ Mercedes. DirecTV ~ Chevy.

    DirecTV is far less consistent. When something is new some pay the normal profit margin. Others don't generate a margin. Others actually cost DirecTV money. Up front. The number of people in each slot goes from few to most. The few really get screwed because they pay twice - up front and monthly over the contract term.

    Imagine Fords only using Ford gas. (Of course gas would be >$100 a gallon.) Some people would get a new one free. Others would pay ten's of thousands.

    It's just a scam to relieve the consumer of money. Whatever the market will bear.
     
  7. Jun 2, 2013 #147 of 263
    Laxguy

    Laxguy Honi Soit Qui Mal Y Pense.

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    Profit margins will not be the same for premium products in general; they'd be higher, almost by definition.

    And by your definition, that'd be a scam. We just won't be in agreement over pricing and marketing in any sphere.
     
  8. Jun 2, 2013 #148 of 263
    unixguru

    unixguru Godfather

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    Not at all. We have 32GB iPhone 4 which was the most expensive at the time.

    After our contract was up we OWNED them. We decided to decline AT&T's scam that wants to continue to collect payments for the subsidy that already expired. We switched to AirVoice prepaid. If staying on the bleeding edge would have been more important to us we would have upgraded to iPhone 5 and continued. Staying on a plan and not upgrading is a ripoff.

    In the cell businesses, consumers want the services to continue without the ripoff when they don't want to pay - again - for another phone with little improvement. They WILL go to an unsubsidized model. That may consist of a loan for a new device that consumer makes monthly payments on until the loan is paid off.

    DirecTV deserves reasonable profits. Fixing the receiver lease scam doesn't preclude having the same profits.

    When given the choice between transparent/fair and obfuscated/unfair the consumer will always choose the former. Buying an auto used to be obfuscated/unfair. I wouldn't know where to look for that kind of dealer anymore. Did auto dealers go out of business? Become less profitable? Nope.
     
  9. Jun 2, 2013 #149 of 263
    Scott Kocourek

    Scott Kocourek Well-Known Member

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  10. Jun 2, 2013 #150 of 263
    slice1900

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    I think you give the consumer too much credit. They'll chose what they think is the best deal for them, even if it is obfuscated and unfair. It just needs to seem like a better deal (which is the reason for the obfuscation, obviously)

    Auto dealers were forced to change by the Internet. It let everyone have information on the dealer cost, incentives, etc. on new cars so you knew the margin they were working with and could no longer claim you were killing them on a deal they were making $5000 on. It is still obfuscated and unfair when it comes to trading in your old car. A lot of people choose that option even though 99 times out of a 100 you make much more selling it on your own.
     
  11. Jun 2, 2013 #151 of 263
    gio12

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    Whoops, it dropped a few bucks from another article I read :nono2: . Add all RD divided between how many millions of phones and it will add maybe $20 per phone. Again, the HR44 cost less than $500 per unit after EVERYTHING. All the R&D was probably recouped on the HR34 anyways or most of it and its why companies do this incremental upgrades with devices.
     
  12. Jun 2, 2013 #152 of 263
    gio12

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    Excuse me? A HRxx is LEASED where an phone you PURCHASE it! Not the same and you know that, just saying... :nono2: :bang
     
  13. Jun 2, 2013 #153 of 263
    wingrider01

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    Actually no, unlocked and unsubsidized (aka no commitment) are two completely different skews where apple is concerned, a no-commitment iPhone is still locked to ATT's network, to get it unlocked you need to submit the paperwork to ATT to unlocked it from their network, a unlocked no-commitment phone is the same thing, but it is already factory unlocked, they had two completely different skew and part numbers.

    I suspect that the build cost of a Mercedes is actually higher then the build cost of ford or a Chevy, just like I an pretty sure the build cost of iPhone is a lot less then that of a DirecTV DVR simplify because of the location they are assembled at, the locations that manufacturer the majority of the components and the general pay scale that the work forces in china are given. There is information that a 16GB iPhone 4S is 188.00 for parts and 8.00 for manufacturing, for the 5 the parts are 199.00 and the same 8.00 for the manufacturing cost, retail cost of the phone is 699.00
     
  14. Jun 2, 2013 #154 of 263
    wingrider01

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    I'll match my CTS-V up against a comparable Mercedes any day
     
  15. Jun 2, 2013 #155 of 263
    inkahauts

    inkahauts Well-Known Member

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    Excuse me? A HRxx is LEASED where an phone you PURCHASE it! Not the same and you know that, just saying... :nono2: :bang


    And dtv will replace a broken unit for shipping generally because its leased. They don't make you pay for a new one. If you want a true upgrade, like HR24 to genie they might, just as a cell company does. They don't even swap phones if you break yours unless you have insurance. He had a valid point abut neither company giving you the latest for free just cause someone wants it.
     
  16. Jun 3, 2013 #156 of 263
    slice1900

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    Why? It sounds like you're assuming no Directv receivers are made in China. Do you know that for a fact? Do you realize it isn't just iPhones - the majority of cell phones are assembled in China. Even companies that own their own manufacturing facilities like Nokia and Samsung have been hugely expanding their contract manufacturing in China the last few years. Well beyond what is needed to serve the Chinese market. Even some of their flagship products are made there. Why? Because the wages are much higher in Finland and South Korea. It isn't just phones, of course: computers for Dell & HP, TVs for many major brands, Xbox 360 & Wii, even high end networking gear from Cisco are all made by Foxconn in China.

    The list of companies using other contract manufacturers in China would be so long it would be easier to make a list of CE products that are not made in China. Maybe none of Directv's OEMs makes their stuff there, but I doubt they're being made in a country that pays what we in the US would consider a decent wage. It isn't as though an HR44 has $100+ of manufacturing cost built into it. No way.

    And why do you think the components are made somewhere else? What is special about the components Directv is using that they can't possibly be coming from the places iPhone components come from? The CPU in an iPhone comes from Austin, Texas (Samsung plant) the cellular radio is Broadcom, so made by TSMC (Taiwan) The flash & RAM, probably Korea or Japan. The SoC and satellite tuner in a Directv DVR are probably also made by TSMC, the hard drive would be made in Thailand, Indonesia or Singapore, the flash and RAM, same places as Apple's.

    Both of them are mostly of Asian origin. Hardly surprising, as the world's electronics supply chain is based there. It would be almost impossible for Directv or anyone else to build a CE product like a DVR, or to build a cell phone, without using any parts from Asia.
     
  17. Jun 3, 2013 #157 of 263
    acostapimps

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    This might sound unamerican but I rather have parts and products made in China,Japan etc than in the U.S,
    Their quality and in some products reliability seems better.
     
  18. Jun 3, 2013 #158 of 263
    MysteryMan

    MysteryMan Well-Known Member DBSTalk Club

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    The craftsmanship of other countries isn't superior to American craftsmanship. Product quality is dictated by the manufacturer's design specifications. Where those products are built is dictated by labor costs. Example: I use Polk Audio speakers with my Home Theater systems. They are designed and engineered in the USA and assembled in China. The Japanese do the same. My Sony equipment is designed and engineered in Japan and assembled in Malaysia.
     
  19. Jun 3, 2013 #159 of 263
    Mike Bertelson

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    You're correct. It's not the same. If your HR2x dies DIRECTV will replace it for, usually for no more than shipping.

    If your cell phone dies and you're not eligible for an upgrade it'll cost you hundreds to replace it.

    That's what a lease gets you.

    Mike
     
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  20. Jun 3, 2013 #160 of 263
    peds48

    peds48 Genius. DBSTalk Club

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    This might sound unamerican but I rather have parts and products made in China,Japan etc than in the U.S,
    Their quality and in some products reliability seems better.


    wow have taken a look at GMC or Ford?


    Sent from my iPad using DBSTalk mobile app
     
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