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Dish AutoHop vs Networks Commercial Skipping Discussion

Discussion in 'General DISH™ Discussion' started by phrelin, May 15, 2012.

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  1. Marlin Guy

    Marlin Guy Hall Of Fame

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    I've been doing that from almost the start. Live TV only though.
     
  2. Marlin Guy

    Marlin Guy Hall Of Fame

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    You're saying 2.8 million subscribers know how to enable 30 second skip?
    Show me.
     
  3. SayWhat?

    SayWhat? Know Nothing

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    And prior to that, they'd just get up and leave the room for a bathroom break or a snack.
     
  4. sregener

    sregener Godfather

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    Okay, so ABC Family could run all the new ABC programs. USA could run all the new NBC programs. FX could run all the new Fox programs. I'm don't know what network would run all the CBS programs, but they could create one if they wanted. They don't. And their first-run series are usually pretty awful compared to broadcast television. They don't have to share their ad time with local channels. So why don't they run the good stuff and fill their broadcast networks with the crap? Why are most major sporting events still on broadcast television? What you seem to be saying is that the only reason these shows don't get the ratings is because they aren't timed for the different time zones (which means those Mountain Time Zone viewers are skewing the results, since they all re-air their programs 3 hours later, which means the same time zone coverage for ET, CT and PT.)

    And while cable has had a few notable exceptions when it comes to a highly-rated show now and then, no station comes close to delivering the numbers 7 nights a week for three hours a night (two for Fox.) And it isn't because the networks couldn't run those programs on their pay channels - it is because they choose not to. And the reason is a simple and obvious one: money. Broadcast television is the king for money. It has the most potential viewers of any distribution system. By a lot.

    If AMC was offering original programming 7 nights a week for 2-3 hours a night, I don't think there'd be any question about their being worth $0.70/subscriber. But they don't deliver that kind of value. How much satellite space do DirecTV and Dish devote to local channels? They don't have to carry them. They choose to because they know that most customers would choose cable over satellite because they have those precious few local channels. The rest of the lineup doesn't compare to those 5-6 channels.

    Broadcast television is king.
     
  5. Shades228

    Shades228 DaBears

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    Prove they don't.

    You won't be able so I'd just move on as it's not relevant to this thread.


    I can understand why people would want to do this. However just because you want it doesn't make it legal, or the best thing for you. If you really think as a consumer you will benefit from this lawsuit then you're drinking the koolaid. If I did business with a company and they started litigation of this type with the companies that they need but are not legally required to provide their service I would get concerned fast.

    Then there's the whole economy issue but unless someone is directly impacted I doubt they'll care.
     
  6. damondlt

    damondlt New Member

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    Does it really make a difference in this thread?
     
  7. mdavej

    mdavej Hall Of Fame

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    Many cable companies removed the skip function a few years ago. They even removed the skip button entirely from their remotes. Did they do this because of potential legal issues, fear, pressure from the networks, or because some of them own a lot of the content? Does DirecTV essentially hide skip for similar reasons? Is slip viewed any differently by the networks because you can still see the commercial?

    (Cable remote with missing skip)
    [​IMG]
     
  8. sregener

    sregener Godfather

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    Which lawsuit are you talking about? The one where the networks are suing Dish, or the one where Dish sued for a declaratory ruling that their technology is legal in the face of impending lawsuits from the networks? The only ones I see complaining that this isn't legal are the networks. I think they're wrong.

    Skipping commercials may not be in our best interest as viewers. But I'm working hard to come up with a reason why. The best one I can come up with is that if everybody, everywhere uses this type of technology, a lot of unnecessary channels will go away and the cost for the remaining ones will go up. OTOH, if commercials go away, I think we'll see the price of the average car drop, not to mention dishwasher detergent and beverages. Would it be a wash? I don't know, but running to the government for help because new technology is changing the game seems so... old fashioned. That would make the networks the new railroad barons, no?

    If the commercials are part of the artistic work, why aren't they included in the Amazon.com and iTunes versions?
     
  9. sigma1914

    sigma1914 Well-Known Member DBSTalk Club

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    I think that's the key...with FFW & "slip" you're still somewhat seeing commercials. TWC has removed 30 skip from Navigator completely & UVerse slips like DirecTV's default.
     
  10. Laxguy

    Laxguy Honi Soit Qui Mal Y Pense.

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    Yes. In fact, while FF or 30 slipping I've stopped once in a while to view a commercial that piques my interest. Not real often, but sometimes.
     
  11. Stewart Vernon

    Stewart Vernon Roving Reporter Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    Only if you are using the separate Slingbox OR a very old version of the software.

    The 922 built-in Sling and the Sling Adapter are incompatible with SlingPlayer software for PC and Mac. You have to use the mobile app or the Web site to access those devices.

    Not to go way off-topic, but my point here was that Dish can't take the "use your content you pay for any way you want" stance when they aren't really promoting that in all areas themselves. Dish is being very selective.

    Heck, even AutoHop only functions on the "big 4" OTA networks... Why didn't Dish enable this commercial skipping feature on all channels that have commercials? I mean, if they believe customers "shouldn't be forced to watch commercials"... why are they not enabling this feature across the board?
     
  12. Shades228

    Shades228 DaBears

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    Amazon and iTunes by a different version of it. If they received a copy with commercials and then offered a service to remove them I bet there would be issues.

    It's been said a few times why this is going to be bad for consumers. Whether you want to believe they will happen or not is your choice. Most products we buy today are cheaper to manufacture then when they acme out and yet cost more. Not paying for commercials will not result in less overall costs for products.
     
  13. inkahauts

    inkahauts Well-Known Member

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    It's completely different if dish is erasing the ads from the program. That's why replaytv figured they'd loose their copyright fight and removed the feature. Dish altering what you see versus the customer altering it is fundamentally different and the reason I think dish will lose.
     
  14. sregener

    sregener Godfather

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    How many times must it be said?!? Dish does not erase the commercials. In effect, Dish presses the 30-second skip button at the right moment the proper number of times to skip over ads instantly, nothing more. And the viewer must choose to skip them each time they watch a program, so the feature is not automatic. Granted, it is one button press rather than many, but nothing is being altered outside of the user's control.
     
  15. sigma1914

    sigma1914 Well-Known Member DBSTalk Club

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    Is any commercial visible or is it like an instant transport?
     
  16. sregener

    sregener Godfather

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    No commercials visible. Just a brief pause and maybe 1-2 seconds of audio before the program returns.
     
  17. sigma1914

    sigma1914 Well-Known Member DBSTalk Club

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    IMO, that's what might make the biggest difference:

     
  18. Shades228

    Shades228 DaBears

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    So you've seen the code and you're stating that it reaches a time in the file and then presses the skip button a pre determined amount, because all commercial length breaks are the same (they're not), and then it just resumes like normal?

    The argument is going to be about HOW the end result happens not what is the end result.
     
  19. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    Many of the restrictions on DISH equipment are there because of the content providers. Perhaps they are simply choosing their battles.

    The same "use your content you pay for any way you want" stance could be applied to HBO, PPV, VOD and other channels with DRM enabled. Why doesn't DISH allow people to save any recording or snip of recording to a shareable or burnable file like Tivo users can do? Losing the premium channels, PPV and VOD is not a battle that DISH can afford to lose. (And now DirecTV is adding DRM on certain channels ... because they can't afford to lose those channels either.)


    That one I'll give them. The ability to find the commercials in the content is key to the ability to skip them. With PTA the exact time of every recording is controlled by the DVR. PTA records a system controlled window ... and the placement of commercials within that window can be observed or determined by monitoring the feeds.

    With individual timers the user sets the start and end time padding ... so the calculation as to where the commercials are would vary based on the start time. Also monitoring more than four networks in three time zones and providing accurate break times would be more cumbersome. Perhaps a few top channels could be monitored but skipping ALL commercials is cumbersome.

    AutoHOP fits within the realm of something that CAN be done. The technology exists and making it work accurately for a few hours per evening is possible. Every channel isn't within that realm.
     
  20. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    Playback or skip that passes the beginning of a commercial break makes a giant hop to the end of the break. There is no stutter or slip ... just a jump.

    I keep finding myself reaching for the remote to skip the commercials myself and thinking "OH, this thing skips for me". I still skip the bad parts of the programming (I don't care about "auditions that popped" - especially ones I have not seen yet).

    I disagree. The complaint is focused on the end result ... no commercials on network TV during prime time if you wait until the next day. And DISH is advertising commercial free primetime as part of their Hopper ad series (on stations airing the spots).

    Perhaps if there was a HOP button that users had to press during each break to "skip all" the industry would like it better. But the industry has been pushing for DISH and others to make commercials unskipable on their DVRs. DISH decided to go the other way.
     
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