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Dish AutoHop vs Networks Commercial Skipping Discussion

Discussion in 'General DISH™ Discussion' started by phrelin, May 15, 2012.

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  1. Jun 9, 2012 #501 of 695
    Marlin Guy

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    Napster was launched in 1999. SoundJam was in 2000, but that was not my point.
    I was sharing MP3s via binary Usenet well before either of them hit the scene, but Napster brought easy peer-to-peer sharing to the masses. The masses didn't live in the Mac world. They lived in the PC world.

    Electronic file sharing forced the music industry to make significant changes in the way they market and distribute music. Record stores closed and the manufacturing, distribution, and sale of physical media is rapidly dying.
    The last album I paid for was Radiohead's "In Rainbows". The band broke new ground by putting the music online for free, but asked people to pay something for it if they liked it.
    I paid for that in order to reward Radiohead for being bold and innovative, and becoming part of the solution, and not attacking their fans as if they were enemies.
    The last movie I purchased was Louis CK's "Live At the Beacon Theatre". I could easily gotten that for free from other sources, but again, I wanted to let this artist know that I approved of his artist to consumer direct delivery model, and that I would still pay for media if it's packaged in a way that suits me.

    Charlie's argument, and I think it's dead nuts right, is that with the expanded access to broadband and better compression technologies, the same thing is beginning to happen to his own business.
    He is trying to be pro-active and retain customer base, rather than being reactive and trying to get them back after millions are already gone.
     
  2. Jun 9, 2012 #502 of 695
    Laxguy

    Laxguy Honi Soit Qui Mal Y Pense.

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    Winters,...
    Good exposition; thanks, and I agree that the changes going on are necessary- maybe not these exact ones, but time will tell.
     
  3. Jun 9, 2012 #503 of 695
    SayWhat?

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    May be going into a different thread, but isn't there speculation that Charlie is trying to position the company for a coming transition away from satellite to wireless without the big roadblocks to full-tilt streaming for the masses in the way of FAP policies, BW caps, limits and overage charges?
     
  4. Jun 9, 2012 #504 of 695
    ggotch5445

    ggotch5445 AllStar

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    Having been a program time shifter since obtaining the first Sony Betamax, I have wrestled in my mind with this issue for many years. But I finally came to the conclusion that not viewing commercials is not stealing programming.

    At no point, within the history of broadcast, over the air television, has there been any kind of contract or direction from the broadcasters that anyone is required to watch commercials. One simply bought one's TV and antenna and watched whatever one wished to watch. A viewer could switch channels or leave the room if he wished not to view a televised ad. That could be said about radio as well.

    Network advertisers are gambling everyday that folks will take time to view their ads. And networks do exist, and profit from the ad revenue. But the contracts that exist are between the networks and the advertisers only. The viewer has no obligation to sit and watch every televised ad- in fact the broadcasters have made it excruciating to do so by scheduling 5 minutes of ads at every break.

    A typical viewer's "price of admission" is his, or her's purchase of the TV equipment. There is no other official commitment, on the part of the viewer. The model that the networks and broadcasters have developed is based on the "hope" that we will watch ads and go out and buy products. If indeed we are looking at a moral cause and effect, we could be faulted for watching a given T V show, and not going out and buying every advertiser's product to pay for the broadcast.

    I acknowledge the fact that the present ad model has paid for the continuation of "free" TV. I am simply saying that nothing has changed: 1. The viewer has never had an obligation to watch, or listen to ads; and 2. The viewer has always had an easy means to not watch or listen to ads.

    As is the case potentially with all businesses, the broadcasters and their sponsors must start to say goodbye to traditional ways of advertising, and start thinking out of the box to maintain and increase their revenue.

    All of this is not necessarily a bad thing for these folks. To again refer back to the Sony Betamax: remember when Disney, Universal, and others were suing Sony to stop Sony from selling The Betamax. The introduction of the VCR turns out to have been the near salvation of the movie industry. Who would have foreseen that back then? And would Disney and Universal now like to return to the pre- home video days?

    Perhaps the networks simply need more Super Bowl concepts: where we might rather actually watch the ads than the programming!
     
  5. Jun 9, 2012 #505 of 695
    Nick

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    I agree with you, of course. My earlier assertion to the contrary was intended to be thought-provoking. I wrote a white paper on the subject some 9-10 years ago. Shook some folks then as I recall.
     
  6. Jun 9, 2012 #506 of 695
    Stewart Vernon

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    Of course not... I don't think anyone has ever said that. No person is required to watch commercials. Even without DVRs and VCRs there has never been a requirement to sit and watch commercials. It would be unenforceable.

    Auto-Hop is very different, though... because a lot of people don't skip commercials since it requires multiple keypresses for each break. You know, all those people who never set their clock on the VCR? Those people are too lazy or can't be bothered to hit skip or FFWD or whatever on the remote multiple times either.

    The advertising industry banks on most people watching live (still true) and other people in the +1/2/3 category still watching some commercials even on DVRed content.

    Now you and I may disagree on how many commercials actually get watched... but the advertisers operate under the illusion that their advertising does get watched enough to make it worth spending money on it.

    IF the advertisers become further convinced, through the ease-of-use of something like Auto-Hop, that far less people are watching their commercials... then they will not pay as much (or perhaps at all) for those commercials... and then the networks will have to look elsewhere for their revenue... and if the advertisers don't pay, who do you think will be asked to pay next?

    Ultimately you and I.
     
  7. Jun 9, 2012 #507 of 695
    SayWhat?

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    I look at it this way.....

    If I'm watching The Big Bang Theory, the part with the cast speaking their lines is the programming from the network. The part where a car manufacturer is trying to sell cars is paid programming. The part where a law firm is trying to drum up business for the ailment of the month is paid programming. The part where somebody is telling about frozen pizzas is paid programming. None of them are part of the scripted program so the network has no say in whether a gadget blots out those paid programs or not.

    They're not written, shot or produced by the network, nor are they owned, commissioned or copyrighted by the network.
     
  8. Jun 9, 2012 #508 of 695
    Laxguy

    Laxguy Honi Soit Qui Mal Y Pense.

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    Winters,...
    Except the Network can say, "No, we'll not allow our feed on your service". Or, "We will charge you 149% more". etc.
     
  9. Jun 9, 2012 #509 of 695
    tampa8

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    Thinking about it, taking the Network stance, your remote is illegal. It assists you in changing the channel when there is a commercial.
     
  10. Jun 9, 2012 #510 of 695
    Stewart Vernon

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    Point and counterpoint exactly!

    Networks can't force you to watch commercials, but the more the advertisers know you are NOT watching them, the less they are willing to pay the network... so either your programs can't afford to be produced because the network can't afford to buy them OR the network has to ask for more money from Dish (or DirecTV or cable, etc.).

    I would rather still have the illusion that the ads might be watched so that the advertisers will keep paying and my TV bill can continue to be cheaper.
     
  11. Herdfan

    Herdfan Well-Known Member

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    Teays...
    I get that on some level, but what there are still many in that age group that like to watch sports. That doesn't really work with sports.

    Actually, it was much easier with radio. Especially in the car. If a commercial came on, change the station. I had 6 presets and one of them would be playing music. Never listened to commercials.

    I remember being in my teens and going to visit my grandmother in Florida. Her TV was acting up, so my dad and I went to get her a new one. All she wanted was one with a "Mute" button because the commercials were too loud. From that point on, she muted every commercial.
     
  12. Marlin Guy

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    My son did watch the World Cup matches online while studying in Germany. I watched last year's July Daytona race streaming from his town home.
    There are ways to still watch live sports. They are not as good in quality yet, but I would say in 5 years they will be.
     
  13. lparsons21

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    Not just the quality of the streaming sports videos, but the very few that are out there. Or at least from legal sites.

    It is pretty easy to find old sports videos from just about any genre, but current events, not so much.
     
  14. ggotch5445

    ggotch5445 AllStar

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    Thanks Nick- you did indeed thought-provoked me into commenting!:)
     
  15. SayWhat?

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    Yeah, but have you noticed that commercial breaks seem to have become synchronized? Whether on radio or TV, when one goes to commercial, many others seem to also. You jump channels/stations and still get spam. Maybe a result of so many stations under common ownership?
     
  16. Mike Bertelson

    Mike Bertelson 6EQUJ5 WOW! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    The Big Bang Theory is not written, shot or produced by CBS. The Big Bang Theory is not owned, wasn’t commissioned by, or copyrighted by CBS. It’s written and produced by Chuck Lorre Productions and shot at Warner Bros. studios. AAMOF, CBS shot down the original pitch and Chuck Lorre re-worked the show and pitched it again, and the rest is history.

    The broadcast is copyrighted by CBS and I think that’s their point. I’m not sure agree with them but, in the case of The Big Bang Theory, CBS took all the components, the episode, commercials, PSAs, station breaks, etc., and produced a half hour timeslot. They purchased the rights to broadcast the show so they can sell the advertising and make money.

    In their eyes the complete broadcast is CBS's copyright even though they don't have the copyright to any of the content.

    It’s gonna be and interesting legal battle.

    Mike
     
  17. Wilf

    Wilf Legend

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    According to lawyers on a recent "This Week in Law" podcast, and an article I saw in the LA Times, the copyright argument doesn't stand a chance. The networks will need another ploy.
     
  18. Mike Bertelson

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    It sound's kinda thin to me too...I'm not a lawyer so really have not idea how they will proceed.

    Maybe interfering with interstate commerce? :grin:

    Mike
     
  19. ggotch5445

    ggotch5445 AllStar

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    Well Stewart, as I had quoted him, Nick did suggest that he felt that skipping commercials was stealing- though he replied to my post indicating that his intent was to provoke our thoughts. Overall my post was meant to respond to Nick, and note that perhaps a new way of promoting one's products is long overdue, as we all have long been skipping commercials in one fashion or another for years.

    I agree with you that ultimately, as consumers, we will- and should pay for the actual products we consume. Advertising will continue, and Autohop should mean simply that we'll get product promotions through clever ad placement, which does seem to be starting. And such fresh, new ad positioning may actually benefit the networks and advertisers. Instead of potentially subjecting folks to lengthy stretches of commercials, many of which repeat within a single program break to the annoyance of the viewers, the networks/advertisers may well find that innovating kinds of product promos will sell these items more effectively.

    Instead of bemoaning Autohop, the networks need to embrace what new technology is bringing and use it to their advantage. Companies that employ new ways of reaching consumers will win the day.
     
  20. SayWhat?

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    I never watch sports any more, but back when I did, when baseball was about baseball before the players' first temper tantrums, I seem to remember flags posted on screen about the broadcast being copyrighted 'in its entirety', but I don't remember if it was by the network or the team or league.
     
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