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Dish drops AMC (+WeTV, IFC & Sundance)

Discussion in 'General DISH™ Discussion' started by lparsons21, May 4, 2012.

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  1. Jun 28, 2012 #941 of 1922
    DoyleS

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    El Dorado...
    There goes a big chunk of those funds that AMC was using to develop those new shows. If indeed there is no resolution in the next month, I would expect that there will have to be some cuts in the Original Programming budget.
     
  2. Jun 28, 2012 #942 of 1922
    lparsons21

    lparsons21 Hall Of Fame

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    They did that already.
     
  3. Jun 28, 2012 #943 of 1922
    phrelin

    phrelin Hall Of Fame DBSTalk Club

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    Northern...
    That's an image I'm trying to get out of my mind.:lol:
     
  4. Jun 28, 2012 #944 of 1922
    inkahauts

    inkahauts Well-Known Member

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    I not sure how all this would help them in the voom case? That should have nothing to do with anything happening today. Where they somehow arguing in that case that something going on today is related to that case in court?
     
  5. Jun 28, 2012 #945 of 1922
    inkahauts

    inkahauts Well-Known Member

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    Unfortunately, I have a feeling amc signed a new contract with DIRECTV last fall when they added Hi Definition. That just leaves Comcast, and a slew of other cable operators...
     
  6. Jun 28, 2012 #946 of 1922
    DoyleS

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    El Dorado...
    "Shares of AT&T slipped 0.1% to $35.16 in recent trading, while shares of AMC Networks dropped 4.1% to $35.05. AT&T stock is up 16% so far this year, while AMC Networks is down 7% in the same period."

    I think Jim Croce had it right....

    "You don't tug on Superman's cape,
    You don't spit into the wind
    You don't pull the mask off that ol' Lone Ranger
    And you don't mess around with Jim."
     
  7. Jun 28, 2012 #947 of 1922
    James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    AMC's claim was that DISH was refusing to deal because they were losing the Voom case. AMC can't blame their issue with AT&T on the Voom case. :)

    DISH represents 15% of AMC's distribution. Not having DISH's ~26c per customer isn't good. Not having that distribution to count when selling ads is not good. And while AT&T has less customers it is still one more hit that AMC doesn't need. AMC needs to find a way to stay on DISH (and AT&T).
     
  8. Jun 28, 2012 #948 of 1922
    Hunter844

    Hunter844 Legend

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    Why did Cablevision spin off Rainbow to become a publicly traded company (AMC NETWORKS) and does going public represent a major shift in company philosophy that creates these issues we now see today?
     
  9. Jun 28, 2012 #949 of 1922
    hdaddikt

    hdaddikt Legend

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    Anybody think the advertisers on AMC are not getting a little hot under the collar by now?
     
  10. Jun 28, 2012 #950 of 1922
    Stewart Vernon

    Stewart Vernon Roving Reporter Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    As James said... AMC jumped out of the gate with "Dish is mad because of a ruling in the Voom lawsuit, so they are dropping our AMC channels to get back at us"... AMC consistently denied that they were asking for too much money, and denied that there even were any rate negotiations... AMC blamed the Voom lawsuit.

    But... now we find out they were also trying to raise rates with AT&T... and AT&T has no ties to the Voom case that I know of... so that means AMC shot themselves in the foot publicly and basically lied in front of millions of people.

    The recent problems in the Voom case for Dish stemmed from Dish being accused of destroying evidence and misleading the court... but now that same court will likely see evidence that AMC misleads people too.

    The Voom case was unrelated to the current case... but AMC chose to tie the two together in the court of public opinion... so I believe it gives Dish ammunition to go the other way and point to how AMC is behaving now as evidence of how Dish would say Rainbow was behaving back then.

    With AMC doing similar things (wanting more money, giving less to its programs, doing one thing privately but saying another thing in public) now as then... it *could* help Dish out in the Voom lawsuit.

    A simple "see, they are doing it again Judge" might speak volumes for Dish's side of things.
     
  11. Jun 28, 2012 #951 of 1922
    inkahauts

    inkahauts Well-Known Member

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    Again I get all that, but how does any of this help amc win their voom case?

    Except I don't see why a judge would take anything happening today into account for either side, because it's really not relevant to the voom case.

    And hey, who's to say they aren't offering the same price and just trying to get AT&T to that level because they are paying less. Ok, I highly doubt that, but who knows i have nothing to actually prove either way other than strong circumstantial evidence, and because of that, I don't think a judge can really take any accusations into account from either side. Now if either side can show some sort of proof of their allegations... But again, how can a judge take that into account as evidence about something that happened years ago.

    No matter what it's all interesting.
     
  12. Jun 28, 2012 #952 of 1922
    SayWhat?

    SayWhat? Know Nothing

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    Read post 950 just before yours.


    One word............ credibility.
     
  13. Jun 28, 2012 #953 of 1922
    inkahauts

    inkahauts Well-Known Member

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    And that can only be shown with actual proof, not circumstance which is all we have right now. In the court of public opinion amc is screwed ten ways to Sunday, but in court over voom, not so sure, that's all.
     
  14. Jun 28, 2012 #954 of 1922
    epokopac

    epokopac Godfather

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    Lawrencevill...
    24 * 7 * 365 = 61320 hours. 78 hours of HR programming is just under .0013 percent. Offer them one cent above the current rate. :D
     
  15. Jun 28, 2012 #955 of 1922
    Stewart Vernon

    Stewart Vernon Roving Reporter Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    It doesn't have to affect anything... but AMC is the one who tried to link the court case over Voom to the current dispute. AMC charged that the "real reason" Dish was going to drop AMC was over the old Voom court case.

    Now that AMC has a price dispute with AT&T and seeing AT&T say pretty much the same thing that Charlie/Dish said about the AMC dispute having nothing to do with anything else but AMC wanting too much money... that puts a very public egg-on-face scenario with AMC having a credibility issue.

    Dish could absolutely use that as evidence in the Voom case which, frankly, is all about credibility.

    The Voom case (if you aren't familiar) hinges on Dish agreeing to carry Voom channels and pay a certain amount for something like 15 years IF Rainbow put money into improving content on the Voom channels. After a couple of years, Dish started asking where the money was going because the Voom channels were re-running the same stuff month after month year after year.

    Dish then offered to scale back to 5 Voom channels, but Rainbow said "you have to take all 15, not just the 5 you want"... so Dish dropped them all and cited the contractual obligations of Rainbow to invest in the channel content.

    Rainbow is charging that Dish violated the contract and that they did not... Rainbow has accused Dish of destroying evidence, and hence a lack of credibility for Dish...

    But now we have some very public AMC lack of credibility... and AMC is the same people once part of Rainbow (before being split off much like Dish split off Echostar years ago)... so I'm sure Dish lawyers are looking for a way to use this current behavior by AMC as examples of a pattern-of-behavior.

    IF you can prove pattern-of-behavior, it lends credibility to your side over there.

    Example... I accuse you of picking on people smaller than you... but you say "I never do that"... but then you go outside and pick on a kid. That's not directly related to the case BUT if you do it in front of a camera crew and people see it on the news... I can bring it up and say "see, this is the behavior I'm talking about."

    So... Dish has likely been pointing out how Rainbow asked for more money with promises of quality programming, but meanwhile didn't spend that money... and then lied about how they spent.

    Flash forward to today... and AMC is asking for more money, not spending it on their quality programming... and then lying about it.

    That's a pattern of behavior that *could* be used in Dish's favor.

    People were sure ready to jump and believe that Dish was mad over Voom and thus dropping AMC to get even... AMC said that on their Web site even... but now the worm has turned, so if Dish wanted they could say this is how Rainbow/AMC operates... sleezy and sneaky.
     
  16. Jun 29, 2012 #956 of 1922
    inkahauts

    inkahauts Well-Known Member

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    If I where dish I'd take the high road with this and the judge. I wouldn't bring it up unless amc did in court, and then id use it purely as rebuttal, because i would have to believe the judge isn't happy with them since he order the trial faster than they wanted after determining they destroyed evidence. Getting caught and then trying to say well they screwed up too and lie about what they do doesn't usually set well with authority figures.

    And if amc did bring it up, they would likely have to start talking about the details of this dispute vs the voom one and I seriously doubt they would ever want to open that door.

    I get everything you are saying, I just think they would both be treading in dangerous waters if they start bringing this all up in court for the voom case. And I don't think this alone would really create enough of a pattern of behavior to sway the judge. They'd need more.
     
  17. Jun 29, 2012 #957 of 1922
    Stewart Vernon

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    [​IMG]

    DISH to Replace AMC With Commercial-Free HD Movies

    New Programming Also Slated to Replace IFC, WE

    ENGLEWOOD, CO -- (Marketwire) -- 06/29/12 -- DISH (NASDAQ: DISH) will replace three AMC Networks channels -- IFC, WE and AMC -- tomorrow at 11:59 p.m. ET with what the company believes is stronger movie and entertainment content.

    DISH will be providing HDNet Movies to replace AMC, and is offering Style and HDNet to replace WE and IFC.

    "HDNet Movies and HDNet are exciting offerings for our customers," said Dave Shull, senior vice president of programming for DISH. "These are networks that will bring great entertainment, including first-run, commercial-free movies in high definition to our customers. DISH is the only pay-TV provider that did not raise its core package prices in 2012. We will continue to fight hard for choice, control, and value in home entertainment."

    DISH notified AMC Networks earlier in the year of its decision not to renew its contract due to the channels' high costs compared to their relatively low viewership.

    DISH's actions come as AT&T and AMC Networks negotiate over what AT&T this week called an "excessive rate increase."

    "A significant portion of any pay-TV bill goes to fees for content providers like AMC Networks," said Shull. "AMC Networks requires us to carry low-rated channels like IFC and WE to access a few popular AMC shows. The math is simple: it's not a good value for our customers."
    AMC Networks has further devalued its programming by making its handful of popular shows available to consumers via iTunes, Netflix and Amazon.com.

    "One of AMC's biggest historical draws has been movies. However, their performance has been trumped by other DISH movie offerings, including the many thousands of titles available on Blockbuster @Home and from top-quality providers such as HBO, Showtime, Starz, EPIX, MGM HD, IndiePlex, and RetroPlex," Shull said.

    Beginning Saturday, HDNet Movies will be available on Channel 130, Style will be on Channel 128, and HDNet (soon to become a new entertainment and music channel called "AXS.TV") will run on Channel 131.

    About DISH Network
    DISH Network Corporation (NASDAQ: DISH), through its subsidiary DISH Network L.L.C., provides more than 14 million satellite TV customers with the highest quality programming and technology with the most choices at the best value, including HD Free for Life. Subscribers enjoy the largest high definition line-up with more than 200 national HD channels, the most international channels, and award-winning HD and DVR technology. DISH Network Corporation's subsidiary, Blockbuster L.L.C., delivers family entertainment to millions of customers around the world. DISH Network Corporation is a Fortune 200 company. Visit www.dish.com.
     
  18. Jun 29, 2012 #958 of 1922
    SayWhat?

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    I don't know if I'll even get those with a 512.

    Edit.... Guess so. 130's already on, no 131 yet though.
     
  19. Jun 29, 2012 #959 of 1922
    oldengineer

    oldengineer Godfather

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    I have the AEP package and already get those new channels.
     
  20. Jun 29, 2012 #960 of 1922
    crabtrp

    crabtrp Legend

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    Yeah, it is very underwhelming to have AMC replaced with something I already have. Awesome.
     
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