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Dish drops service to nimbleTV customers

Discussion in 'General DISH™ Discussion' started by FTA Michael, Jul 22, 2013.

  1. FTA Michael

    FTA Michael Hall Of Fame DBSTalk Club

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    I'd been following this story for a while at FTABlog, but now it's been picked up by All Things Digital, so it must be legitimate. :grin:

    "Dish Network, the satellite TV company (that internet streamer) NimbleTV was using as its initial backbone, has cut off service to NimbleTV’s customers."

    http://allthingsd.com/20130721/dish-pulls-the-plug-for-now-on-nimbletvs-web-tv-service/
     
  2. harsh

    harsh Beware the Attack Basset

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    I enjoyed the part about "no formal agreement".

    You can bet the programmers wouldn't stand for this kind of activity.
     
  3. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    I'm surprised that any company could publicly promote such a product and expect not to be cut off. The opportunity for fraud through account stacking is only the beginning. Providing services people do not qualify for due to their location is another problem. With all their programmer contracts DISH can't turn a blind eye to these issues.
     
  4. gov

    gov Legend

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    Methinks maybe 10% of the shut off is either Charlie is POd he didn't think of it first, or he did but hasn't got all the bugs out if his version.


    Tip-o-the-hat if it's the latter!
     
  5. tampa8

    tampa8 Godfather/Supporter

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    What would be the purpose of DISH allowing hundreds or thousands of people access to something like 100 or so receivers because that's what Nimble is doing. It has nothing to do with the actual service, in fact I bet if Nimble had one receiver per subscriber (As Aereo does with antennas for OTA) Dish would support them.
     
  6. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    It is obvious that some sort of stacking was going on ... multiple users using the same DISH account. Even if one accepted the premise of each subscriber paying Nimble for the hosting and bandwidth and "the provider" for the content the customer was NOT offered the full content a residential subscription would provide and the subscriber was NOT limited to the service level they would get from a normal 1:1 subscription to DISH.

    Nimble, like Aereo, works in the shadows. There are two reasons for doing that. One is to protect your proprietary way of providing a service and try to stop others from copying the service and competing. The other is because the operation is not quite legal or violated their provider's terms of service.

    Aereo's operations were exposed via lawsuit - and for some reason I'll never be able to explain the "every subscriber gets their own personal antenna" theory of operation was accepted. Aereo has also self limited their service offerings to OTA broadcasts and sale within that station's OTA area. And while satellite and cable providers can be forced to pay for such "local-into-local" rebroadcasts it is easier to defend delivering content to a user who should be able to pick up the content where they are when they are if only they were using an antenna and tuner instead of a mobile device. Nimble did not seem to have that self limitation.

    I will give Nimble credit for not becoming a fly by night operation. Perhaps they exposed the people behind it and felt that they could not simply take the money and run without ending up in court. Giving refunds is a much better outcome for their sub-subscribers than stopping service and making their customers fight to get their money back (as other providers have done).
     
  7. FTA Michael

    FTA Michael Hall Of Fame DBSTalk Club

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    I'm sorry, but folks who compare nimbleTV with Aereo are comparing apples with pears. You're not the only one, James, though there may be fewer people who would also say that those two very public, self-promoting companies "work in the shadows".

    NimbleTV is based on the (overly simplistic?) idea that you can purchase a full-price subscription from some pay-TV provider somewhere, then nimbleTV will store your recordings in the cloud and deliver your service over the internet. Since the pay-TV provider is adding another fully-paid subscriber it might not get otherwise, everybody ought to be happy, right? :sure: Perhaps a vendor in another country will be nimbleTV's first "permanent" content source one of these days.

    Aereo really uses banks of teeny OTA antennas, a strategy it deliberately developed and promoted to comply with IMHO goofy copyright laws. If I can watch my local TV from my rooftop antenna via DIsh/Sling in another city, why can't I watch through a different OTA antenna via Aereo? The main answer is that whenever there is a whiff of money, OTA broadcasters want extra retransmission consent cash. Their Dyle experiment shows that, if some OTA broadcasters had their way, they'd prefer to eliminate free OTA TV altogether. But I digress.

    Why did Dish pull the plug? The stated reason was apparently confusion over being an unauthorized reseller, but my guess is more in agreement with James' earlier comment on programmer contracts. Dish might not have minded turning a blind eye as long as cash trickled in and no one else cared, but maybe something caught a programmer's notice. Maybe it was something in a blog somewhere. :sure:
     
  8. cmyers

    cmyers New Member

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    How did Nimble give away free trials? I have had the service for months for free just by giving them another email address. Who was paying for that service?

    A few paying users of the service told me they could record 8 or 9 things at the same time, how is this possible using a dish network receiver? It was like they setup a head end then everyone was watching and using the same signals.
     
  9. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    If they cannot say HOW they legally operate it casts a shadow on their business. Both companies. We only learned more about Aereo due to the lawsuit against them.

    Can you or anyone else prove that DISH was getting another fully-paid subscriber out of the deal. IIRC it was your claim that you could record nine programs at the same time. Were you paying enough extra receiver fees to cover nine outputs?

    NimbleTV needs to PROVE, out of the shadows, that they are a 1:1 reseller and not an account stacker. Not one of those resellers that DISH worked to shut down a few years ago who would install some receivers in one house and some receivers in another ... set up one account with DISH then bill each customer close to full price, pocketing the difference between the individual subscriptions and a stacked subscription with extra receivers.

    Can anyone prove that there was one fully paid DISH subscription per NimbleTV subscriber?

    If all NimbleTV was doing was extending each subscriber's own personal receivers over the Internet (the way a Sling enabled DISH receiver works for regular installations) you wouldn't have missing channels. You would not have a subset of a full subscription.

    It sounds more like NimbleTV had an MDU type setup where a bank of receivers is used and the channels are remodulated to reach TVs. But instead of reaching TVs in hotel or dorm rooms they fed encoders so they could stream the content online or store it for customers. Not exactly fully paid DISH subscriptions. Do you have prove that they were 1:1?

    The way the case is going you probably can ... at least within the market that those locals are supposed to be viewed in. When Aereo offers service in cities where they are not receiving signals the other shoe will fall.

    I would not be surprised to see the loophole closed when the retransmission laws are renewed. As online streaming becomes a bigger part of distributors revenue they will be sure to protect their income.

    So it was all your fault?

    If NimbleTV were allowed to stand what would stop them from putting receivers in across the country to pick up out of market sports? DISH's lack of HD sports channels?

    DISH has spent years looking for resellers not following the rules. Shutting down bad resellers is not news. It was just NimbleTV's turn.
     
  10. FTA Michael

    FTA Michael Hall Of Fame DBSTalk Club

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    Dish billed the amount of a full-price subscription directly to my credit card. NimbleTV's fee was seperately billed to the same card. I doubt that I was unusual in the way I paid.
     
  11. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    So when it all fell apart DISH put a refund on your card? From the articles it sounded like NimbleTV was the one that processed refunds.

    Were you paying for enough receivers to record nine things?
     
  12. FTA Michael

    FTA Michael Hall Of Fame DBSTalk Club

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    Dish issued a pro-rated refund directly to the credit card. NimbleTV claimed to be the concierge that interceded with Dish on my behalf. :sure:
     
  13. FTA Michael

    FTA Michael Hall Of Fame DBSTalk Club

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    NimbleTV is alive again, streaming channels that match Dish's channel numbers and selling packages with the same like-Dish prices, but not mentioning Dish by name. I haven't checked any live channels, so I can't say for sure that nimbleTV still uses Dish, but I've got no reason to think otherwise.

    Two things have changed. One is that NYC locals are unavailable by default; a subscriber must provide a NY address to qualify to view them. The second is that Dish (if it's still there) will no longer bill separately; the full amount goes straight to nimbleTV, which says it "will pay the TV Provider on your behalf."

    Now there's nothing to prove that nimbleTV isn't account stacking. We know that Dish was fully aware of nimbleTV's receivers because it cut them off last month, so I doubt that nimbleTV could even try anything like that, but how can I truly know? Tip of the hat to James Long for bringing that up. My blog post called him "an old acquaintance" because I don't know whether we're still friends. :hi:
     
  14. cmyers

    cmyers New Member

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    If your watching a channel like USA Network and it has ads for dish networks pay per view shows then chances are they are using Dish Network again.
     
  15. Paul Secic

    Paul Secic Hall Of Fame

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    What is NimbleTV?
     
  16. Jim5506

    Jim5506 Hall Of Fame

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    I believe they take Dish Networks satellite feed and port it to the internet for distribution via subscription.

    They better be careful or Charlie will buy them out, this is the way he sees TV service going, perhaps not through internet but broadband.
     

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