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Discussion in 'The OT' started by Chris Blount, May 19, 2009.
Or maybe haven't ever been around one even... :whatdidid
I think the reasoning behind some folks thinking dogs don't have emotions is linked to the larger theological debate regarding the souls of animals. There are many people and religions that don't believe that animals have souls, and since a soul is supposed to be the essence of our being, it's the root of our emotions. If animals don't have souls, then they also can't have emotions.
Personally, I think that's a bunch of hooey. Spend a couple of minutes with any dog and you'll know dogs absolutely have emotions. And other animals as well. I've known pigs, cows, horses, goats and sheep to show some type of emotion as well as recognition of situations and people.
I was just going to write something about how I don't know if other animals can experience emotions but decided to look around on the net first and found this very interesting article on that exact subject.
Hmm in looking back on my reply to you post Should have talked about "projecting", where you interrupted your dogs look and behavor based on your life experience. Another person might interrupt the dogs behavor as an act of revenge or getting back at the person. Believe me I have seen this before "my dog did that just to get back at me", yea right.
Sorry, I don't believe that one of the emotions that a dog has, independent of instinct, conditioned response or learned response, is revenge.:nono2: Dogs just are not that complex and don't have what we would term "ulterior motives".
While their reaction may very well be a conditioned response to the fact that they're going to go outside, and they're going to get to go to the bathroom... that doesn't change the fact that they are happy, or excited, which is certainly an emotion. The reasoning behind the emotion may be different than what the dog owner thought, but it's still an emotion.
Dogs definitely show affection. If they like you they'll rub up against your leg, and wag their tail. And while those may be signs they would use "in a pack" to show the alpha dog where they stand... it's still an emotion, on some level, IMO.
You're right, we tend to humanize dogs to great extent, and think "I get happy when I see someone I love, so the dog must love me since he gets happy when I get home". Dogs are certainly not little fuzzy humans, and so the reasons for their behaviors may very well be seated in their instincts, or their genetics... but I think on some basic level, they show similar emotions to those we show. Happiness, sadness, etc.
I believe that dogs have the purest of souls and will beat me to paradise.
I agree with you on the point that dogs aren't little furry humans, I always feel sorry for dogs that the owner dresses up and such. But in their own way they do show emotion that is beyond just instinctive behavior.
hehe.. I know you were joking by saying vengeance, but it is a sign of emotion, just fear not vengeance. More proof!!
I never said that dogs don't have emotions, they do, as all animals do, but what I was trying to show that the dogs exhibition of emotions may not be motivated by a "human based feeling" but by a dog/canine origin.
And a learned response.....not vengence, but physical reflex caused by fear. Simple. It's not all about you.
People love to take things personally.
Whenever I go to take a pee my one Aussie, Diamond, follows me in and while I'm standing there she would look in the toilet and then look at me and back to the toilet.
Well, sometime ago Diamond got sick and had diarrhea during the night. Guess where she went? Yup, in the bathroom, which is good because the bathroom has the fake wood floors that makes it easy to clean up.
And everytime she gets sick, she gets sick in the bathroom.
Now that is learned behavior by watching the Alpha dog and not because she wanted to make my life easier for cleanups.:lol:
I understand that, and I meant for my post to supplement your statement that human emotions and canine emotions aren't necessarily the same thing.
I know it's not "really" vengeance, I was being a bit facetious with that statement.
A little off topic but one of my favorate TV shows is the Animal Cops series on Animal Planet. You can't tell me that those dogs (and other animals) who get rescued and adopted by loving, caring owners are not much happier afterward.
The one in post 24 sure lets me no when it is time for her treat. Just like her pups (my mom has one and we have the other) she first will sit in front of me and look at me. Then she will take a quick run at my recliner and and push up against it. If I continue to ignore her, she barks at me. I make all three (see link in my sig) work for their treats. They have to first sit, lay down, then roll over. One of these days I will record them and post it on YouTube.
Ooooops......now it was my turn to misinterpret.....bad Bubblepuppy.
I think that is a case of the dog training the owner.:lol:
Dogs are the master of the "Jedi Mind Trick"
Absolutly, I have had two rescue aussies, my aussie Diamond that I have now is a rescue , and I do have to say that she does show a deep ense of gratitude. My first rescue aussie,Bear, showed the same sense of gratitude. It's really amazing. My aussie Smoke, my avitar, I raised him from when he was 8 weeks old. He has never been mistreated or has been wanting in anything. I do not see that "gratitude" in him. Thtat's not a bad thing, and I don't take it personally, but it is interesting to see the difference in behavior in both dogs based on their backgrounds.
Thanks for the spelling correction. Bark bark woof woof
So... how long did it take the dog to train you? :lol: They do have a knack for picking up on what gets them what "they" want.
Bubblepuppy is doing a good job of expressing what I mean when I said we often assign the wrong emotion to explain a dog's actions.
However, if our dog gets excited for ANY reason when we come home, is that not a show of emotion? If he gets angry when another dog comes near his food, is that not emotion, regardless of the reason?
To take it to the next level, how many of us would be happy to see our family or friends if we were not conditioned to expect good things from them? When our conditioning teaches us that our mate will be critical and negative when they see us, are we happy to see them? Even though we look at conditioned learning as making the dog different from us, to a large extent we are the same, when we really think about it.
And our toy poodle gives every indication that she loves wearing clothes. She, and many generations of toy poodles before her, were taught to expect praise and treats for being "cute."