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Does anyone REALLY know why no DLB?

Discussion in 'DIRECTV HD DVR/Receiver Discussion' started by KirkusTX, May 22, 2007.

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  1. May 22, 2007 #1 of 113
    KirkusTX

    KirkusTX Duplicate User (Account Closed)

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    After one of my two HR10-250's lost a drive, I decided to finallly make the switch, and I have to say I've been pleasantly surprised so far with the HR20. Like many others, I miss the DLB, and I'm really curious why we don't have them.

    I'm not looking for DirecTV bashing or Murdoch conspiracy theories, but given that DLB has been hugely popular with former TIVO users, and that other DVR's manufacturers have implemented it (so it must not be a patent issue), and finally, with the ability to record two shows at once, it would seem to be a relatively simple and popular feature to implement. Does anyone have any inside info as to why it's not available? And BTW, my non-HD non-TIVO DVR (Hughes) also has this feature.
     
  2. May 22, 2007 #2 of 113
    Earl Bonovich

    Earl Bonovich Lifetime Achiever

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    Flat out...

    DirecTV chose not to have that feature with the R15, and that carried into the HR20...

    It is not a patent issue...

    It simply is a feature that DirecTV has opted not to include yet.
     
  3. May 22, 2007 #3 of 113
    HarleyD

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    Or the immortal timeless explanation courtesy of Steve Martin...

    I forgot!
     
  4. May 22, 2007 #4 of 113
    LOBO2999

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    I hate that there is no dlb , I was trying to pause and switch to another channel the other day .
     
  5. May 22, 2007 #5 of 113
    johnck78

    johnck78 Godfather

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    So far for me, and I've had this box since January, it is the only real shortcoming from my Tivo!! I used this feature alot, especially on game day (football)
     
  6. May 23, 2007 #6 of 113
    KirkusTX

    KirkusTX Duplicate User (Account Closed)

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    Thanks, Earl. It seems like such an odd decision from a marketing perspective, I wonder if the exclusion provided some other benefit that would otherwise be given up, ie the 90 minute buffer (versus 30). I wouldn't think so, but I'm not a programmer. Obviously, its something that occurred in the R15 development timeframe. I wonder if these guys were testing prior TIVO users, or sports fans, for that matter.

    I know this dead horse is starting to stink pretty bad, but it seems somewhat akin to if they had "decided" not to record the 5.1 stream. It's obviously a feature many of us like, were use to and now miss. I'd love to know what took place around that DirecTV table when the topic of DLB came up and they said, "Yeah, let's don't do that.":confused:
     
  7. May 23, 2007 #7 of 113
    Bobby42

    Bobby42 Cool Member

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    I'm guessing the conversation went something like this:
    You have x weeks to complete the product and get it out the door. We want features A, B, C, and DLB.

    The programmers came back and said, to get A,B,C, and DLB we need x+y weeks.

    Ok, what do you have to drop to get it done in x weeks?

    DLB.

    Ok, drop DLB and finish in x weeks.

    Software features from major companies are always a matter of schedule time. Marketing gets a date fixed in their head when you have to finish and work backwards from there to see what you can include.
     
  8. May 23, 2007 #8 of 113
    glennb

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    I don't really miss DLB.

    Don't care if we ever get it on the HR20.
     
  9. May 23, 2007 #9 of 113
    HarleyD

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    It is a missing feature I am reminded of mutiple times daily. I have not gotten to a point where I don't miss it and don't believe that I will. The question is whether this irritation will callus over or will it fester and worsen.

    And each time I am reminded that I no longer have DLB, I am mystified as to the supporting logic behind the conscioius decision to not include this feature.

    Many months ago Earl implied that some of the underlying reasoning had been shared with him and that he at least understood and somewhat agreed with it.

    But the fact that he could not share those reasons with us leads me to suspect that those reasons could inflame negative sentiment among the subscribers. I end up imagining things like content providers leveraged D* into either doing this to force increased exposure to commercials or paying more for the content they provide. Pure speculation, but left to my own imagination I tend to conjure up the more negative possibilites.

    Not knowing gnaws at me daily. It brings out the conspiracy theorist in me.
     
  10. May 23, 2007 #10 of 113
    Mike Bertelson

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    I posted my own theory here.

    http://www.dbstalk.com/showpost.php?p=900955&postcount=587

    Just and opnion...............

    Mike
     
  11. May 23, 2007 #11 of 113
    Earl Bonovich

    Earl Bonovich Lifetime Achiever

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    You think to hard...

    It has nothing to do with content providers... as they would love for you to watch two things at once, vs record it and watch later. (a lot easier to skip the commercials when it is completely recorded, vs watching in a buffer).
     
  12. May 23, 2007 #12 of 113
    Earl Bonovich

    Earl Bonovich Lifetime Achiever

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    Actually the conversation went more like this:

    What should the box be:
    -) A DVR first, then a LIVE TV receiver 2nd
    -) A Live TV receiver first, then a DVR

    How do most people use a DVR?

    I am still amazed today, how many LONG term (multiple year), users of TiVo based systems (both DTivos and the SA-DTs), don't know they have two live buffers and managed to survive.

    Now not having dual buffers for almost two years (Starting with the R15).. I simply don't miss it one bit... I watch everything pre-recorded... minus sporting events. And even then, I am rarely actively watching two at a time... even on Sunday's with Footbal.

    Even last night... American Idol... we started to watch it live... but just couldn't take it (the blah-blah blah and the commercials), so we watched something else that was pre-recorded... and came back to watch IDOL when it was finished recording.
     
  13. May 23, 2007 #13 of 113
    HarleyD

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    I know. I pretty much said so. ;)

    I also get tweeked when I know I don't know something someone else knows. :lol:
     
  14. May 23, 2007 #14 of 113
    tiger2005

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    Totally agree. My irritation with this has done nothing but fester which is REALLY annoying. Its come to the point that I've even started looking into canceling my D* service and moving to Comcast. This thought process has started to evolve with me researching Comcast installation, etc. in my area because for the next 30 days I would be able to cancel my D* without paying a cancellation fee since they just updated their customer agreements. I'm not sure if I'm willing to jump YET, but the festering will only get worse and worse and at some point I WILL be switching providers if the HR20 doesn't include DLB.
     
  15. May 23, 2007 #15 of 113
    closer9

    closer9 New Member

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    Agreed.

    I'm pretty new around here, but I used the older TiVo DVR for years and used the DLB frequently. About 2 months ago I upgraded to HD and got the HR20 and to be honest, I really don't miss DLB very much. Sure there are times I wish it was there, but I'd rather see other things fixed / implemented before DLB (read: dimming the bright ass blue and orange leds :)
     
  16. May 23, 2007 #16 of 113
    Diana C

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    Keep a couple of things in mind:

    1) The DirecTV+ DVR software used the Sky+ DVR software as a starting point (and let me tell you the DirecTV+ software is LIGHT YEARS ahead of the Sky+).

    2) As a result of point 1, the general concept was that the second buffer was thought of as being like the tuner in a VCR - it only exists to allow the user to record one programming while watching another.

    3) Managing FIFO buffers of A/V data is tricky - managing 2 is even trickier. I suspect that the potential for de-stabilizing the software when retrofitting DLB into software that was designed around SLB was judged to be an unwarranted risk, particularly considering points 1 and 2.

    4) As noted, MANY TiVo users either don't know that they have DLB or else they don't use it.

    The decision to not have DLB is like TiVo's decision to make the buffer only 30 minutes long. There is no showstopper technical reason (indeed, I've hacked my DirecTiVos to have dual 120 minute buffers) - it is just what they decided.
     
  17. May 23, 2007 #17 of 113
    wilbur_the_goose

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    Let me put it this way - I'd pay more for DLB.
     
  18. May 23, 2007 #18 of 113
    mr anderson

    mr anderson Legend

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    You and me both.

    I would have gladly upped to the $7500 a year platinum package.

    And all they would have had to do was give me a straight answer, through their proxy here of course.
     
  19. May 23, 2007 #19 of 113
    bidger

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    Only used it during the NFL Season and found the big limitation was if one of my fingers slipped across the Ch+/- button before I could hit Cancel, *poof*...the buffer was gone. Regular TV programs I just record to make sure that doesn't occur.
     
  20. May 23, 2007 #20 of 113
    mr anderson

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    So you're saying because you don't know how to work a remote we shouldn't have it or you could care less?

    Very insightful, thank you.
     
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