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DVR 510 announced and monthly fee!

Discussion in 'Standard Definition Receiver Support Forum' started by boba, Jul 29, 2003.

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  1. Aug 1, 2003 #381 of 485
    Jacob S

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    Keep those brochures, it could still be considered misrepresentation of the product but at the same time since it was not presented to public and not meant to be it may not get you anywhere whether it said PVR or DVR. Would this mean that a business could promise lifetime service to a customer under a certain business name then simply change their business name and not have to service the customer anymore? Perhaps Dish should be reminded of this and having a copy of it sent to them.

    Now I know that they had this planned sometime since that CES show so they have not had it planned for that long.
     
  2. Aug 1, 2003 #382 of 485
    ocnier

    ocnier Godfather

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    dishrich

    Please post that as soon as you can. If nothing else it sets a time frame for when this was decided definitively.
     
  3. Aug 1, 2003 #383 of 485
    Darkman

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    ya - LOL - they'll say DVR service is not PVR service... - so it is NOT a "fee-FREE" :D

    also - check somewhere on the brochure, maybe in small letters somewhere for the "Subject to Change" thinggy ( hehe - just Joking on this one :) )

    But then again - who knows, stranger "chit" was known to happen :p
     
  4. Aug 1, 2003 #384 of 485
    Jacob S

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    Or perhaps it could be deemed as calling something two different things when in all actuality it is the same thing. Thats like calling a satellite receiver a box, tuner, descrambler, etc. when its the same thing. The only difference is the hard drive.

    I would not be surprised if there is small print saying that all prices and services are subject to change without notice at any time.
     
  5. Aug 1, 2003 #385 of 485
    Jacob S

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    If the 921 is going to be $699 instead of $999 then why is there no discount on the 510 then? Or is this some 2 year contract promotion for new subscribers only for $699 (a $300 discount instead of taking the $300 510 receiver). Dish is not going to sell the 921 for $299 to new subscribers and take an additional $700 hit just on that one receiver to get a new subscriber.

    Doesn't Tivo give you the light version of their software for free? Why couldn't Dish do the same? Wouldn't Tivo's light version of their software be like Dish's current version of the software we see right now?

    You would end up paying who knows how much for all those HD channels and still be forced to buy AEP to not be charged the DVR fee? Yeouch! There should be a deal for those that buy a certain amount of programming or HD to encourage HD subscriptions. Dish is two faced trying to help stop the satellite tax but tries to charge a per receiver DVR fee and retail price even though he is charging a fee. He knows that if you get taxed more then you will be less likely to pay him as much so he would rather you pay him than the money on taxes. Its not about saving you money, its about getting Dish more money.

    Speaking of revenge, I got in business by getting revenge against Primestar back in 1999 by swapping out about 50 to 60 customers to Dish Network getting the customer a free system and free install and later free 6 months of the basic package as a bonus. Every once in a while I have to remind them of how I got in business and how I can do the same against them. I made Dish tens of thousands I am sure along with many other retailers that also retailed for Dish some doing it because they backed Dish up believing in the company.

    Dish will not do anything that it does not have to do in which may include not improving DVR service but I know what I will have to do if they do such things as this and try to make money off of it, I will have to sell other types of service. I am hoping Rainbow will have retailers to sell the product for them but am not sure if they will take that route or not.
     
  6. Aug 1, 2003 #386 of 485
    shortiemcgee

    shortiemcgee New Member

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    Take five minutes of your time and call 800-333-3474 and talk to a sales rep. Say you are interested in buying a system but read that there will be a PVR fee on ALL PVRs (okay strech the story a bit). Tell them you read that it is going to be $10 per month on each reciever.
    They will tell you that "I'm sorry, I don't have that information". Tell them you won't be signing up because of the fee and hang up.
    Doesn't take much time but if enough people do it, you can assume the message will get across.
     
  7. Aug 1, 2003 #387 of 485
    angiodan

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    I am also trying to find a brochure from CES 2003, but here is an article from the show.

    http://www.tech-4-homes.com/news/ces2003/dishnetwork921.htm

    Half way down, it clearly says it. NO PVR FEES!!

    They wouldn't have wrote it, if it wasn't written or told to them somewhere.

    In this article from Sound and Vision, it talks about the 921 and then the HD Tivo. For the HD TIvo, it talks about a monthly fee. The way the article is written implies no fee with the 921. Its about half way down the article as well.

    http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/article.asp?section_id=2&article_id=386

    I'm sure I'll find more.

    This fee crap was definitely cooked up after CES in January.
     
  8. Aug 1, 2003 #388 of 485
    Mark Holtz

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    Actually, I called Dish to remove CC autobill. When they asked if I was satisfied with my service, I said NO, and explained why. Poor gal, she had to consult a supervisor.
     
  9. Aug 1, 2003 #389 of 485
    Chris Freeland

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    That is because in January 2003, their was no DVR fee on E*DVR's and E* had not announced this Fee plan yet. Company's change their minds all the time, especialy when it comes to pricing and sneak peeks at future products. These old brochures do not prove a thing. Sheesh :shrug:
     
  10. Aug 1, 2003 #390 of 485
    Mark Lamutt

    Mark Lamutt Your Neighborhood Liasion

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    Please, if you start calling the Dish CSR's, at least try to be nice to them. They have no idea any of this is happening, and even if they did, they couldn't do anything about it. Granted, while a lot of the CSRs aren't very competent, they AREN'T the bad guys here. Please don't treat them like they are.

    Back to lurking in this thread now...
     
  11. Aug 1, 2003 #391 of 485
    HTguy

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    Well, I'm going to try one more time to put things in perspective.

    The announcement of DVR fees was premature, incomplete and not meant for most of the people on this board.

    DISH Network is not in the hardware business. They design, manufacture & distribute the hardware as a means of providing programming to their subscribers. They are in the TV programming business. They give away most of the hardware with basic installation at a substantial loss ("Customer Acquisition Costs") in hopes of making it back plus an eventual profit via program subscriptions. Their primary focus always has been and always will be increasing their subscriber base & up-selling the programming.

    (BTW, this keeps the overall cost of programming low to all of us with minimal increases in spite of higher rates from the providers plus occasional additions.)

    Selling new equipment to old customers is neither a priority nor a revenue stream. As a matter of fact, for retailers it's break-even or a loss (a "cost of business.") Actually, it almost always a loss if you factor in S&H costs and overhead.

    The overwhelming majority of DISH Network subscribers are not interested in the equipment at all. To them it's just a box that puts a picture from a satellite on their TV. A minority of them appreciate upscale features like DVR & HDTV. But even many DVR owners & leasers hardly ever use the DVR capability if at all.

    (I just got off the phone with a nice lady who has had one for 15 months. She was beginning to notice some video stuttering & I instructed her how to do a power reboot which solved the problem. While it was rebooting I asked her if her hard drive was full. She didn't know what I meant. I asked her how many hours of events had been recorded. It turns out she has never recorded anything! This is not as untypical as the dbs geeks in this forum may think.)

    But since DVR users tend to be better & "stickier" customers E* has been trying to make it cheaper & easier for new subs to get a DVR and they instituted a revolutionary (for them) upgrade program for existing subs.

    In keeping with this they have now instituted a system wherein new customers can get a DVR system with nothing out of pocket. This should attract a lot of new customers to our mutual benefit.

    The fact that the MSRP for the new DVR510 is $299 is almost completely irrelevant because almost nobody will buy it for $299. You will probably never see one on the shelf at Sears but if you did & someone bought one it will be a rare occurrence & most likely a return.

    Ask yourself if you were really waiting for a new 120G DVR to come out so you could run out & buy it for $299. First, you were unaware of its existence. Secondly, you had no intention of paying $299 for a new DVR just because it has a bigger hard drive whether or not you found out it had monthly fees. And you still won't. The point of the monthly DVR fee is to reduce the upfront cost as much as it is to keep a long term revenue stream.

    The next DVR you get, if you ever get one, will be on a DVR promotion that saves you the costs up front. It probably won't be a 510. It could be a 522 but in that case the $5mo will be negated by the $5mo a/o fee you don't pay for the 2nd tuner. (Someone here postulated that a 522 would cost $15mo extra!)

    If you have a 501/508/721 today, or get one while they are available, you will never pay a fee. It's been announced, repeated and put in writing.

    The DVR most of us have been waiting for is the 921. It will cost a lot less than projected now. The only downside is that it may take a while to get the UPG deal in place for existing subs so you may not be the 1st kid on the block to have one after all.

    I saw someone say they would never sign a 2-year agreement for a DVR UPG Promo. For a 5xx series it would only be one year anyway. But if you could get a 921 for $499 with a 2-year agreement I bet a lot of people would go for it (including me!)

    Getting "in Charlie's face" is not going to change anything. And neither would the "defection" of all the dbs geeks on all the forums.

    So calm down, take a breath & wait for the chat on the 11th.
     
  12. Aug 1, 2003 #392 of 485
    Jacob S

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    I also know that anything you tell the CSR's will do you no good. They do not know as much as we do and there is nothing that they can do. All they can do is their basic routine of answering the phone, tell you what the computer tells them what to say, answering questions, activating/deactivating/changing programming. Thats about it.
     
  13. Aug 1, 2003 #393 of 485
    shilton

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    Remember in the 80's when someone got the bright idea to make NEW COKE??? Seemed like a good idea to someone but things are not always as rosey as they appear on paper. A difference was made that time because the customers stood up and spoke out for what they believed in. If you believe this fee is un-necessary and unfair as I do, contact Dish and tell them so. Tell your friends to as well. If enough speak out, they will listen. If we just shut up and take it, they won't...its that simple. Its a matter of the power of the people.
     
  14. Aug 2, 2003 #394 of 485
    Jacob S

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    I think its also a matter of telling this information to the right person because if you just tell a CSR this may never get noted and the information may never get moved on to the right person. Perhaps an email to Charlie Ergen himself would get his attention or another higher up.
     
  15. Aug 2, 2003 #395 of 485
    shilton

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    Yes...that's true. I plan on using the ceo@echostar.com email address for starters. Surely someone other than a CSR will read that.
     
  16. Aug 2, 2003 #396 of 485
    Bob Haller

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    Frankly I think most folks will be put off by the fee and not knowing better will buy or get a standard receiver. Lowering the entry price will not help when so many dont understand what a PVR, DVR. is or how its used.

    I also disagree that subs will be limited to just one PVR. I just completed upgrading to a 721 and two 508s. Turned off my last remaining 4900 the other day.

    My TIVO friends all are getting all their tvs on tivos. Heck I find myself wanting to pause the radio:)

    On the CSRs. Having E PVRs I have spent way too much time with tech support. I have churned thru 3 721s and 4 or 5 508s.

    The CSRS I have spoken with have all been friendly, helpful and pretty knowledgable.

    THIS IS GREAT PROGRESS FROM JUST A COUPLE YEARS AGO!!!!

    Whats going on here is good but sad. We are bringing to Es atrtention the poor quality of their PVR boxes, along with making them aware of how we long term subs feel.

    Having spoken with my contacts they are still clueless as to why were upset:( E appears only interested in lowering the cost to new subs, I HOPE they sell a lifetime account free PVR offer.

    I would like a two tiered PVR price. Low with fee or higher with no fee.

    I will happily pay retail to get free PVR
     
  17. Aug 2, 2003 #397 of 485
    shilton

    shilton Godfather

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    Bob,
    If Dish is clueless as to why we are upset, they need to only turn their eyes to AOL's current woes. Sooner or later customer growth starts to die off and at that point, if you have no customer retention, your business begins to decline. AOL spent years of rapid growth figuring they had to do NOTHING for the existing customer because so many people kept on signing up and today they are retraining their CSR's in customer retention and begging customers to stay. They finally realized what they needed to know all along. TAKE CARE OF THE CUSTOMERS YOU HAVE. If Dish turns us off, they will lose in the end because sooner or later the rapid growth stops...Besides how much of that growth is from those of us participating in ClubDish promos, etc. Do you think I will refer a friend if I feel burnt by Dish??? Guess again. This while thing just stinks!!!
    With most things, the cost of technology gets cheaper like cell phones, computers etc...If Dish were smart, they'd find ways to make the things cheaper and better NOT MORE EXPENSIVE!!!
     
  18. Aug 2, 2003 #398 of 485
    Jacob S

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    That would be good if they would have it as a lifetime PVR service on the account instead of the receiver but you have to realize if they do this they will have to charge you retail price on the PVR receiver.

    Dish needs to receive the money for the PVR receiver one way or another, by getting the money up front in which they should be doing with getting retail out of the product or with the monthly fee if the receiver is discounted initially. It is now obvious that Dish is wanting to not only get consumers this product because of low churn but take advantage of that by making a profit off of it since they are less likely to churn anyways.

    They need to give consumers the opportunity to purchase the lifetime DVR service as well. Isnt that the purpose of purchasing for retail? Isnt retail supposed to be the price at which they want to get out of their product after making a profit? Perhaps they should mark up the cost of the receiver if they actually want to make a profit on it but I suppose they do not want to do this because that would deter customers right off the bat but to say one price for the receiver and one price for the monthly/lifetime DVR service makes it not look so bad.

    Dish is obviously wanting the basic receivers to be the ones in which they do not make a profit on for those entry level customers and then make a profit on the higher end receivers one way or another. Its not bad for a company to want to make a profit but bad to charge a heck of a lot more than your competition and per receiver. Do you have to pay for the full programming price per receiver? Do you have to pay for Playin' Tv per receiver? No, its one fee per account.
     
  19. Aug 2, 2003 #399 of 485
    Jacob S

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    Isn't Dish trying to compete against cable for having lower prices and how they do not raise their fees as much as cable does? I have read quite a few times about how Dish and DirecTv both have been looking more at subscriber growth trying to get more and more customers rather than trying to keep the ones that they do have. I read once where DirecTv gained 750,000 customers one quarter a while back (if I am not mistaken) but because they lost 500,000 customers their actual net gain was only 250,000 customers. What is going to happen once they quit getting as many new customers? They are going to have to try to keep the ones they have to still make the numbers look good to show actual gains. Wouldn't it be cheaper to pay $100 to keep some subscribers than paying $300-$500 to gain a new one? You could keep 3-5 subscribers for the same cost as gaining one new one.

    Its one thing to get people into subscribing to satellite but another to get them to stay a satellite subscriber. You cannot assume that customer will stay once you get that person as a subscriber if you cannot remain competitive and keep the customer satisfied.
     
  20. Aug 2, 2003 #400 of 485
    Jeff_R

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    And your reply will be something like "Thank you for your email. We'll get back to you when we can tell you something." That was the message I got when I told them why I was cancelling, and why I was ticked at them. Seems even the CEO's email address is now subject to the lack of customer support that it once was. :confused:
    Jeff
     
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