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Echostar 14 - At 119 and in service 5/19 at 3:00am ET

Discussion in 'DISH™ High Definition Discussion' started by bluegras, Mar 20, 2010.

  1. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    There is not a lot of open space - even in space. The difference is only 1/20th of a degree from D7S as there would be from E7 had the original plan been followed. Even IF E7 was at 119.0 overshoot at return would not be needed.
     
  2. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    Epoch Tue May 11 23:11:47 EDT
    Code:
    ECHOSTAR 14
    1 36499U 10010A   10132.13318400 -.00000016  00000-0  00000+0 0   864
    2 36499 000.0083 219.1090 0004562 323.9983 330.5177 01.00693626   571
    Perigee 35649.43
    Apogee 35687.79

    Satellite period,TC 23:50:04.840

    Satellite Longitude 123.523738 West
    Longitude after 24hours 121.9992 West

    Average Driftrate 1.5130 deg/day East (2.98 days to 119 ... May 15th AM)
    Steady ...
     
  3. ShapeShifter

    ShapeShifter Godfather

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    Yes, everything's relative. That 1/20th of a degree is about 30 miles separation at geosynchronous altitudes. That's a large distance by our standards here on Earth.

    But then again, on a cosmic scale, that's nothing at all.

    And at that altitude, 30 miles still isn't a heck of a lot of maneuvering room.
     
  4. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    Exactly (except 1/20th of a degree is 22.8 miles - 164,582/360/20). E14 will park about 45.7 miles away from the nearest satellite and is currently passing about 80 miles below the Clarke belt as it approaches the slot. There is plenty of room to come in to the slot without passing it.
     
  5. jacmyoung

    jacmyoung Hall Of Fame

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    My question is, once E14 is online, what is DISH’s national HD capacity? We know DirecTV had a “grand plan” of 200 capacity, which was then claimed by DISH first, although I think it would be foolish for DirecTV to continue to stick to that “grand plan” when DISH had already used the plan for ridicule, but many on the other side insist the “grand plan” cannot change.

    My speculation is, DISH might again wait for DirecTV to come up with the next “grand plan”, then claim it again. It worked last time, why not do it again? But my question is, in anticipation for such a showdown, what is the maximum capacity DISH can claim? For example, if DirecTV later announces a new 250 capacity “grand plan”, can DISH again claim that number first?:)
     
  6. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    DISH is already claiming 57 "channels" of VOD as part of their 200. I believe that proves that satellite transponder capacity does not limit DISH's ability to add to their channel count.

    The question becomes more of a philosophical one: How big a number can DISH present that is believable? To some people here, DISH has already passed that number. To the "J6P"* crowd that doesn't follow the industry and count the channels themselves DISH may be able to say 300 or 400 without E14.

    E14 will allow DISH to move some services around and provide more SD and HD local markets. The current network tables list 62 spot beams on five transponders. E7 spots currently occupy five transponders. Replacing E7 with E14 does not increase national ConUS space for HD.

    *J6P = Joe Six Pack --- the common man
     
  7. P Smith

    P Smith Mr. FixAnything

    21,623
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    Jul 25, 2002
    W.Mdtrn Sea
    TLE #86. Moving.
    Code:
    [B]
     #   Date Time GMT Perigee Apogee Long       Lat     Inclin Gap Chg-Hrs Eccentric Revs/day[/B]
    ...
    065 05-01 12:53:39 35776x35797 138.5220°W  0.0307°N  0.068°  21  +10H  0.0002477 1.00273523
    066 05-02 06:03:30 35699x35839 138.1563°W  0.0276°N  0.028° 140  +19H  0.0016577 1.00334311
    067 05-02 11:52:05 35686x35766 137.8119°W  0.0275°N  0.028°  80   +6H  0.0009467 1.00487843
    068 05-02 20:45:09 35687x35690 136.4415°W  0.0185°N  0.012°   3   +9H  0.0000439 1.00623200
    069 05-03 07:03:32 35687x35691 136.4476°W  0.0244°N  0.017°   4  +10H  0.0000574 1.00620878
    070 05-03 09:32:42 35687x35691 136.2098°W  0.0343°N  0.020°   4   +2H  0.0000482 1.00621863
    071 05-04 06:19:24 35687x35691 135.1757°W  0.0293°N  0.018°   4  +21H  0.0000525 1.00621039
    072 05-04 13:27:58 35687x35691 133.9327°W  0.0275°N  0.019°   4   +7H  0.0000469 1.00621788
    073 05-05 05:18:01 35687x35691 133.9396°W  0.0272°N  0.016°   4  +15H  0.0000551 1.00621233
    074 05-05 14:17:38 35687x35691 133.3414°W  0.0238°S  0.017°   4   +9H  0.0000486 1.00621975
    075 05-06 04:13:57 35653x35702 132.4825°W  0.0307°N  0.026°  49   +9H  0.0005825 1.00660925
    076 05-06 10:07:47 35650x35694 131.8635°W  0.0255°S  0.018°  44   +6H  0.0005194 1.00681962
    076 05-06 12:49:09 35651x35690 131.8391°W  0.0225°S  0.015°  39   +3H  0.0004613 1.00686692
    077 05-07 05:19:48 35651x35687 130.8947°W  0.0308°N  0.016°  36  +17H  0.0004310 1.00691617
    078 05-07 11:42:38 35651x35687 130.6927°W  0.0235°N  0.013°  36   +6H  0.0004271 1.00692432
    079 05-08 02:56:53 35651x35687 129.4097°W  0.0273°N  0.012°  36  +14H  0.0004278 1.00692549
    080 05-08 13:45:45 35651x35687 127.6751°W  0.0206°N  0.010°  36  +11H  0.0004280 1.00692443
    080 05-09 05:20:05 35651x35687 127.9140°W  0.0241°N  0.009°  36  +16H  0.0004299 1.00692592
    081 05-09 13:09:15 35648x35684 127.4953°W  0.0041°N  0.010°  36   +8H  0.0004258 1.00702473
    082 05-10 01:34:17 35651x35687 126.3699°W  0.0218°N  0.008°  36  +12H  0.0004335 1.00692825
    083 05-10 15:10:25 35650x35688 126.1556°W  0.0265°N  0.012°  38  +13H  0.0004542 1.00692681
    084 05-11 06:22:44 35650x35688 124.8693°W  0.0188°N  0.006°  38  +15H  0.0004535 1.00692424
    085 05-11 13:56:39 35650x35688 124.8634°W  0.0301°N  0.010°  36   +7H  0.0004521 1.00693075
    086 05-12 03:11:47 35650x35688 123.3578°W  0.0187°N  0.008°  38  +13H  0.0004562 1.00693626
    
    Target: 35,786 km at 119°W  
    
     
  8. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    Epoch Wed May 12 06:27:47 EDT
    Code:
    ECHOSTAR 14
    1 36499U 10010A   10132.43596924 -.00000019  00000-0  00000+0 0   870
    2 36499 000.0078 219.1049 0004562 324.0086 080.2746 01.00693777   573
    
    Perigee 35649.38
    Apogee 35687.75

    Satellite period,TC 23:50:04.710

    Satellite Longitude 123.324686 West
    Longitude after 24hours 121.8003 West

    Average Driftrate 1.5136 deg/day East (2.9 days to 119 ... May 15th AM)
    Steady ...
     
  9. JWKessler

    JWKessler Legend

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    Jun 2, 2004
    I have been finding it hard to visualize and remember the locations of all these satellites. Back in the C-Band days the printed program guides like OnSat would always include a sexy center fold showing all the North American satellites and their positions. I found this to be very handy.

    I've been looking for something similar for the modern DBS satellites, and came across this;

    http://www.boeing.com/defense-space/space/bss/launch/980031_001.pdf

    If accurate and complete, that would be a very cool resource. However, I noticed that it doesn't show anything for the 72.7 slot. The closest is DIRECTV-1R at 72.5. Beyond that is the 73 degree slot.

    Is Boeing's chart missing stuff or am I misreading something?
     
  10. P Smith

    P Smith Mr. FixAnything

    21,623
    144
    Jul 25, 2002
    W.Mdtrn Sea
    TLE #87. Moving.
    Code:
    [B]
     #   Date Time GMT Perigee Apogee Long       Lat     Inclin Gap Chg-Hrs Eccentric Revs/day[/B]
    ...
    065 05-01 12:53:39 35776x35797 138.5220°W  0.0307°N  0.068°  21  +10H  0.0002477 1.00273523
    066 05-02 06:03:30 35699x35839 138.1563°W  0.0276°N  0.028° 140  +19H  0.0016577 1.00334311
    067 05-02 11:52:05 35686x35766 137.8119°W  0.0275°N  0.028°  80   +6H  0.0009467 1.00487843
    068 05-02 20:45:09 35687x35690 136.4415°W  0.0185°N  0.012°   3   +9H  0.0000439 1.00623200
    069 05-03 07:03:32 35687x35691 136.4476°W  0.0244°N  0.017°   4  +10H  0.0000574 1.00620878
    070 05-03 09:32:42 35687x35691 136.2098°W  0.0343°N  0.020°   4   +2H  0.0000482 1.00621863
    071 05-04 06:19:24 35687x35691 135.1757°W  0.0293°N  0.018°   4  +21H  0.0000525 1.00621039
    072 05-04 13:27:58 35687x35691 133.9327°W  0.0275°N  0.019°   4   +7H  0.0000469 1.00621788
    073 05-05 05:18:01 35687x35691 133.9396°W  0.0272°N  0.016°   4  +15H  0.0000551 1.00621233
    074 05-05 14:17:38 35687x35691 133.3414°W  0.0238°S  0.017°   4   +9H  0.0000486 1.00621975
    075 05-06 04:13:57 35653x35702 132.4825°W  0.0307°N  0.026°  49   +9H  0.0005825 1.00660925
    076 05-06 10:07:47 35650x35694 131.8635°W  0.0255°S  0.018°  44   +6H  0.0005194 1.00681962
    076 05-06 12:49:09 35651x35690 131.8391°W  0.0225°S  0.015°  39   +3H  0.0004613 1.00686692
    077 05-07 05:19:48 35651x35687 130.8947°W  0.0308°N  0.016°  36  +17H  0.0004310 1.00691617
    078 05-07 11:42:38 35651x35687 130.6927°W  0.0235°N  0.013°  36   +6H  0.0004271 1.00692432
    079 05-08 02:56:53 35651x35687 129.4097°W  0.0273°N  0.012°  36  +14H  0.0004278 1.00692549
    080 05-08 13:45:45 35651x35687 127.6751°W  0.0206°N  0.010°  36  +11H  0.0004280 1.00692443
    080 05-09 05:20:05 35651x35687 127.9140°W  0.0241°N  0.009°  36  +16H  0.0004299 1.00692592
    081 05-09 13:09:15 35648x35684 127.4953°W  0.0041°N  0.010°  36   +8H  0.0004258 1.00702473
    082 05-10 01:34:17 35651x35687 126.3699°W  0.0218°N  0.008°  36  +12H  0.0004335 1.00692825
    083 05-10 15:10:25 35650x35688 126.1556°W  0.0265°N  0.012°  38  +13H  0.0004542 1.00692681
    084 05-11 06:22:44 35650x35688 124.8693°W  0.0188°N  0.006°  38  +15H  0.0004535 1.00692424
    085 05-11 13:56:39 35650x35688 124.8634°W  0.0301°N  0.010°  36   +7H  0.0004521 1.00693075
    086 05-12 03:11:47 35650x35688 123.3578°W  0.0187°N  0.008°  38  +13H  0.0004562 1.00693626
    087 05-12 10:27:47 35650x35688 123.3249°W  0.0197°N  0.008°  36   +7H  0.0004562 1.00693[COLOR="Red"]777[/COLOR]
    
    Target: 35,786 km at 119°W  
    
    Speed is slow increasing.
     
  11. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    "72.7" is the 72.5 slot ... although DISH is using Nimiq 5 for their services there.

    http://satbeams.com/ seems to have a nice guide of satellites and beam coverage but is also not "complete".
     
  12. jacmyoung

    jacmyoung Hall Of Fame

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    That is why I avoided the use of “HD channels”, rather used the word “capacity”, a word coined by DirecTV BTW. Regardless whether people think those channels are real or not, which happens for all providers anyway. The question is the “capacity”.

    If I understand you correctly, DISH already has at least “300 capacity” even without E14. Why haven’t Charlie already said so that he has “300 capacity”? Is he waiting for DirecTV to come up with their new “250 capacity” grand plan then pull a fast one on them again?
     
  13. JWKessler

    JWKessler Legend

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    Jun 2, 2004
    Ah! So 72.7 is actually coming from the 73 degree slot. No wonder I get confused. It's starting to make sense now.

    Thanks for the clarification and the link.
     
  14. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    No, it isn't. Your question is marketing ... and DISH has clearly demonstrated that their marketing is disconnected from *any* satellite capacity.

    It doesn't matter how many satellites/transponders/whatever DISH has. They are not marketing their "capacity".

    That isn't the way DISH is marketing their HD. They have done so in the past ... especially around the time that the SuperDISH was being pushed as the new way of getting HD (which didn't quite work out). Now they have chosen to follow the "choices" path - although they are using the term "channels".

    If DirecTV chooses to bump up their number (which is 160 channels with the "May" additions and the capacity for 200/225 once D10 is repaired) I'm sure DISH will find a few more things to count. The five channels added today (real 24/7 HD) were not in DISH's "200" channel count. I'm sure DISH can find more.
     
  15. jacmyoung

    jacmyoung Hall Of Fame

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    According to the other side, the DirecTV’s grand plan of “200 capacity” will not change before another new sat is launched. For now it is D12 so “200” it is. They cannot have “225”, this is what I was told, not my idea, I questioned the idea, but they corrected me.

    Also DISH today has made it clear they have already exceeded “200”, correct me if I am wrong, there is no need for DISH to come up with anything in the future, DirecTV cannot possibly go over “200” at this moment, not with D12.

    Not that DISH will not add new HDs, in fact DISH seems the only one that is actually adding HDs for right now. But DISH has no need to come up with anything in response to any DirecTV’s new plan, because DirecTV cannot go over 200, and DISH has already gone over 200.
     
  16. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    if you read it on the Internet it must be true.

    Over time DirecTV's "capacity" has been adjusted. Last year they claimed "160" with D12 adding "50%" which would put them in the 225 range. Then that got adjusted downward. With the repair of D10 there is a good chance it will go up again.

    Sounds like a battle for another thread ... I'd tell you that you were off your rocker for "300". But "225" is possible.

    I consider that assumption to be short sighted and incorrect. If you were a DISH employee I might even consider it reckless. DirecTV could pass "200" when they want to (after D10's repair).

    But back to topic, E14 does not add capacity other than locals via spotbeam to the current setup at 119.
     
  17. rocatman

    rocatman Icon

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    Actually E-14 can add some CONUS capacity by moving some of the locals that are on CONUS TPs to spotbeams. I believe this would free up as many as 3 TPs for the WA. Dish can add a lot of CONUS capacity for the EA by using E-6 for TPs that E-3 and E-12 can not provide.
     
  18. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    A few New York, Chicago and Denver locals and some multimarket locals such as statewide PBS feeds (all SD) are ConUS but I don't see three transponders worth of locals. No HDs locals on ConUS other than those sold by AAD.

    Eastern Arc is a different story - and will probably be the next bottleneck until another spotbeam satellite gets put into place.

    BTW: In noting that DISH has pre-created 62 spot beams in the network table these are all on transponders 1-5. E-14 is a much better satellite than that and eventually more spots can be opened up ... at the expense of ConUS coverage. It should be fun watching the moves in a couple of weeks when E7 offloads to E14.
     
  19. ShapeShifter

    ShapeShifter Godfather

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    Oops! :eek: I did the calculations, added some stiff rounding, and then promptly forgot that I did it in kilometers, not miles! :bang

    But if that wasn't bad enough, I used the sine of the angle times the altitude above sea level, neglecting to add in the radius of the Earth. Dang! :nono2:

    Thanks for catching that. Good thing I'm not a rocket scientist, or we'd all be in trouble! ;)
     
  20. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    No problem. I pulled the circumference off of a trusted website, so my math was easier. :)
     

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