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eSATA capacity questions

Discussion in 'DIRECTV HD DVR/Receiver Discussion' started by Rich, Nov 30, 2008.

  1. veryoldschool

    veryoldschool Lifetime Achiever Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    :confused: I still don't see what you are.
    From the link above:
    "Order an internal upgrade and send us your DVR. Prices below include labor and return shipping. You send us the unit, we upgrade it within two business days, and ship it back."
     
  2. Rich

    Rich DBSTalk Club DBSTalk Club

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    Just filled up a Cavalry 750G eSATA and it did exactly as I expected. The programs that were unmarked to save are being deleted and there is no warning window at all saying that the disc is full. Not when I open the playlist or any other time. Would seem to me that this would be the case with any eSATA no matter the size. And I have no space remaining.

    Rich
     
  3. saxon2000

    saxon2000 Legend

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    The only thing is it takes a few seconds to bring up my 'list', but hey, it's a long list!

    :blush:
     
  4. Rich

    Rich DBSTalk Club DBSTalk Club

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    Damn, I read it wrong. Mad Cow! Sorry. Take it all back. Soon tho, I betcha!

    I could swear I saw a page just for 21-700s that listed internal drives that could be installed by the customer, but I can't remember what I had for breakfast most of the time.

    Again, my apologies to you and D*.

    Rich
     
  5. Rich

    Rich DBSTalk Club DBSTalk Club

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    That's the first indication. Next should be the occasional freezeup. Minor annoyance. If you get a lockup, where you have to reboot, let us know.

    I just installed my new 1.5 X today and it feels fine. I do have it on a good, stable 20-700. I hope it doesn't screw up the 20, can't find replacements for them.

    Rich
     
  6. veryoldschool

    veryoldschool Lifetime Achiever Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    Weaknees claims to still sell/lease HR20s [has them "in stock"]. :lol:
     
  7. amahdi

    amahdi Legend

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    I was just about to post a similar discussion topic. I have the exact same issues. As soon as the capacity is around 20% or less, the remote response time is very very slow. It is actually very frustrating. At times it feels as if the hard drive freezed up. Not sure what the problem is. I have tried rebooting as well but to no avail. Not surfe if anyone has a solution to this problem? Thanks...


     
  8. MountainMan10

    MountainMan10 Icon

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    I have a 1TB WD in an Antec Mx-1 connected to my HR21-700. It also seems to be slower with less than 20% available. Also a lot more likely to get gray/blank recordings. I have thought about upgrading to a 1.5TB because of this.

    I also have the USB connected for serial port control. The serial port control is always more responsive than the IR remote.
     
  9. russdog

    russdog Godfather

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    I believe that won't help anything, because it's not the size that matters, it's the database.

    My hunch is that you do not have it filled with mostly HD movies. I bet you have lots of shorter things and/or lots of SD. Is my guess right?

    While all this is conjecture, it appears that the HR's database can store only so much info and, as that db starts to get kinda-full, responsiveness gets slower and slower. So, if you had nothing but 2-hr HD movies and 3.5-hr HD football games, I bet you could fill it up without it slowing down much. But with shorter and/or non-HD material, you hit the limit of the db before you hit the limit of the HDD's capacity.

    For more info about this guess, see post #2 in this thread: http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=142735

    At the moment, I'm running into the same thing with my 1TB WD in an Antec. As an experiment, I was loading it up with lots of half-hour and 1-hr SD programs, including a bunch in B&W. As the number of programs grew, the responsiveness to db-related actions has gotten worse and worse. Since I was recording lots of programs that didn't use much space, I was seeing big slow-downs very badly at about only 50% full. When I deleted about 70 Maverick reruns, it got better. But not completely better. So, now I'm wondering whether the db gets fully fixed after its capacity gets taxed.

    Now, if you get *any* new HDD, responsiveness will be great at first... simply because its db is empty. If you were to reformat your existing HDD, clobbering the db and all your recordings, I imagine it would get fast again too. But, as the db fills to a certain point re: number of programs and amount of program info, it will slow down again. A 1.5TB won't help that. (That's my guess anyway.)
     
  10. veryoldschool

    veryoldschool Lifetime Achiever Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    Your "hunch" makes the most sense.
    "Question": when you get to the slow down point and delete programs, but don't pick back up on the speed, what happens after a "menu restart"?
    The db keeps a history of recordings [the 28/30 day repeats] and if you have "swamped it", I could see simply deleting programs wouldn't completely clear it up. Since smaller drives should see this same "swamping of the db" over a much longer time frame, "I'd think" a reset would help as it rebuilds during reboot.

    I can't "play with this" since I hate re-runs, have stock drives, and 75% free space on all of them, after almost two years.
     
  11. Rich

    Rich DBSTalk Club DBSTalk Club

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    Hi Russ,

    This weekend I filled up a Cavalry 750 eSATA and as "t_e" told me it would, the HR slowed down noticeably when it reached about 15% Available. I'm at about 31% Available on one of my 20-700s with the 2TB Cavalry eSATA. This time, I'm gonna try to go all the way to no capacity as I did with the 750.

    The 750 was loaded with both SD and HD recordings, mostly HD. Some football games, some VOD recordings. There was no problem with lockups and I did have one freezeup, but I fixed that quickly by powering off and then back on. All the recordings that were unmarked for saving rolled off the bottom of the playlist as I expected them to. At no time did I see a warning about the hard drive being full. I followed Mr. TenBox's post and hit the list while watching the Rutger's game (I live down the street from the Rutgers Stadium) and never saw a warning message of any kind. If the warning doesn't show up on a 750, why would it show up on a 2TB? Addressed this to Mr. T in a previous post on this thread and have not received an answer. I'm still determined to be polite, but I would like to see an explanation concerning the "warning".

    Now, I think you're on the right path with the data base being the culprit. Altho I gotta admit I have had a hard time following some of the posts on this thread, I think the 750 doing what it did kinda points in that direction. And I have the feeling that, logically, all the hard drives are gonna slow up the HRs when they get close to "full".

    If my last statement is true, then a larger hard drive would seem to be the weapon of choice. If a 1TB is slowing down as it reaches near capacity and my 2TBs are slowing down at 1.5TB then wouldn't a larger drive make sense?

    Been doing some PMing about this and have come to the conclusion that these "computers" are probably not up to dealing with a full hard drive past the 500G mark. Also, as "t_e" has pointed out, the present lineup of HRs apparently has about the same ability to process data as a 2002 computer.

    Perhaps the 23-700 has addressed this problem. Can't find one to buy and have been offered a "new" HR by D*, but turned the offer down because, as usual, they can't guarantee what model would be delivered.

    Rich
     
  12. Rich

    Rich DBSTalk Club DBSTalk Club

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    Did that with my 2TB Cav and it made no difference.

    As soon as I get this 2TB filled up (if it makes it that far) I will try your suggestion and see what happens. Seems logical. Didn't do anything for my other 2TB, but I have been more gentle filling this one up. And it has no SD recordings.

    I do wish you'd buy an eSATA and play with it. We could use your informed input concerning your personal experiences with one.

    Rich
     
  13. Rich

    Rich DBSTalk Club DBSTalk Club

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    I agree with you. Based solely on my own experiences and what I've been able to figure out from the posts on this thread, I do have a hard time digesting the "tech talk", a larger hard drive will give you more actual capacity. Might not be the "full" capacity of the hard drive, but I'm getting at least three quarters of programming out of my 2TB eSATA and that figures out to about 1.5TB (roughly).

    I have no idea what the above statement means. Could you elaborate?

    Rich
     
  14. veryoldschool

    veryoldschool Lifetime Achiever Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    If there was a BB/Fry's anywhere near by, I'd take one for a "test drive", but they're an hour drive down the hill.
    I've got a 500 GB drive that I keep thinking of putting in my owned HR21, but since space isn't ever a problem, it doesn't seem to be worth doing.
    If the db is the problem, larger drives wouldn't help at all, since the db isn't related to the drive.
    The DVR is an extremely stripped down computer. Not that it's "slow" but that it doesn't have the extra resources that computers do. Computers simply have "generic" hardware to handle programs, while this has specific chips & code all streamlined to work with each other.
    Think of it as more of a calculator with some memory than a PC.
     
  15. veryoldschool

    veryoldschool Lifetime Achiever Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    There is a USB to serial adapter, that will send "commands" to the DVR. Since this connects [more] directly to the "system bus", it doesn't have to go through the IR/RF remote interface, thus it's quicker.
     
  16. Joseph Carozzoni

    Joseph Carozzoni New Member

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    I’m new to DBSTALK (about 5 minutes registered), so if I’m not posting in the correct area please move it. The purpose of this post is to help and/or inform people about eSata drives with the HR20-700 - I've got a whole three weeks experience now. I have two HR20-700 receivers (stable before), two Siig eSata cables, and two different eSata drives, and have different experiences with both.

    The 1TB Cavalry CAXB3701T0 I got at Newegg for $99 after rebate (free S&H and no tax). The only word to describe it is perfect. Simply turn both units off, power up the drive then the receiver, worked first time. When Directv upgraded the receiver and rebooted, still worked fine. I had to reboot it myself (installed a UPS), still worked perfectly. The only issue I have with it is the Carbon-Laser powerful blue led - how bright does a drive activity light need to be?

    The other receiver has a Seagate FreeAgent XTreme 1.5TB, $245 at Buy.com. The first time connected it worked fine (i.e. turn drive on first, then the receiver). Three days later the receiver locked after using the back-skip a few times. It rebooted but on the internal drive. To make a long story short about my one hour debugging process (yes –I’m an computer engineer and was forced to used the exhaustive try everything in everyorder and document it in an engineering notebook process), here’s how I have to get it to recognize the external Seagate again after update reboots and the every 3-4 day receive lockup from using the back-skip (which doesn’t occur with running on the internal drive):

    1. Turn everything off and unplug both power cords. Wait 4-5 minutes.
    2. Unplug the eSata from the receiver (not the drive).
    3. Turn the drive on and let it spin up (1 minute, but blue led will still be off)
    4. Plug the eSata and electric into the receiver.
    5. As soon as the drive's blue led comes on (30 seconds), unplug both the electric and the eSata from the receiver.
    6. Almost as quickly as you unplugged the receiver, plug the eSata quickly followed by the electric back in (luckily the eSata connector is next to the electric connecter on the reciever).

    I’ve had to do this a dozen times now (every 3-4 days and the lockups are always due to the back-skip button) and this process hasn’t failed once.

    Executive Summary: IMHO - Buy the Cavalry.
     
  17. Rich

    Rich DBSTalk Club DBSTalk Club

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    I'm using the fastest computer I've ever owned to type this and I have to put up with a "calculator" to watch TV with? Great Googamooga! :lol:

    Rich
     
  18. Rich

    Rich DBSTalk Club DBSTalk Club

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    Do it come with a remote? How does this work? More confusion. :nono2:

    Rich
     
  19. Rich

    Rich DBSTalk Club DBSTalk Club

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    You're right about the Cavalrys. And a strip of Scotch Super 88 electrician's tape over the offending blue light will solve your problem.

    I've tried the Seagate Xtreme 1.5 on a 21-700 and that experiment came to an end quickly during a football game when it started locking up. Got it on a Monday and returned it the next Monday. The 21s are a lot more finicky about the eSATAs that they will work with. The Cavs work with both the 20s and 21s, except for the 2TB RAID Cavalry eSATA. That one I could not get to work properly with a 21, but they do work perfectly with a 20. I have two of them set to RAID 0 and have no problems with them. Other than what I have posted on this thread.

    I just got another 1.5 X Monday and hooked it up to a 20-700 yesterday and so far, I've had no problems, but your post makes me wonder what I will see in a week or so. You definitely should not have to go thru that process to get yours running.

    Stay with us and tell us what happens.

    Rich
     
  20. veryoldschool

    veryoldschool Lifetime Achiever Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    This is more for a home theater system where there is another computer controlling everything [hence the serial connection].
     

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