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Explain it to me: TiVo/DirecTV easier to use...

Discussion in 'DIRECTV HD DVR/Receiver Discussion' started by Earl Bonovich, Oct 8, 2007.

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  1. Oct 8, 2007 #21 of 302
    Earl Bonovich

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    The question isn't which one is better... we have other threads for that...
    I am targeted one "generic" reason that people kept posting in those thread... one was easier to "use" then the other...

    Because a feature like TiVo2Go... DoD... Media Share...
    Doesn't make the unit more "easier to use"... sure it gives you more options.

    Even DLB, I would argue... doesn't make it "easier" to use... it allows you to do something else.
     
  2. Oct 8, 2007 #22 of 302
    bradfjoh

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    I think there are a couple of things from a user perspective that are not intuitive about the D* interface. I've only used it since the end of July and had a tivo type for since about 2000, so I do have more experience with Tivo.

    Better:
    One button recording.
    Better conflict resolution. You can decide which of the two programs to stop recording.
    30 Second fwd button.
    Speed

    Worse:
    A couple of things that I had to ask around or on this website.. Things that I do not think are intuitive.

    1. How to skip to the tick marks or the end of a show or the beginning of a show.
    2. Not knowing how to delete a show, sometimes it's the dash, othertimes you have to hit stop and go down.
    3. Not knowing if the buffer is still going to be there when you leave a page to watch a recording or whatever.
    4. How to modify season pass priorities. I find it odd that I have to go to List then Yellow button and then down arrow a couple of times to get there. There might be an easier way, but I haven't discovered it yet and really isn't that what this list is for.
    5. 50 Season Pass Limit. My wife has shows, I have shows and both my kids have shows... I think it's crazy that my wife can't record all her shows.
    6. I think, at times, it can be difficult to figure out which channel you should set the Season Pass to.
    7. The Guide, the Guide, the Guide. The TIVO guide is about 100x better than the HR20.
     
  3. Oct 8, 2007 #23 of 302
    Earl Bonovich

    Earl Bonovich Lifetime Achiever

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    1) Even with DLB... if the dog steps on the remote of the TiVo... wouldn't it lose the buffer on the primary channel?

    2) If it was "financial".. then why isn't it blocked on recorded content?

    3) No... I can't tell you. (just like I have stated countless times in the countless number of other threads on the topic)

    So yes.. if you want to continue the conversation on it, see my posts in all the other DLB threads... as the answer is still going to be the same.
     
  4. Oct 8, 2007 #24 of 302
    raw121

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    Isn't this more of an hardware issue more than one of the UI? If you put the TiVo interface on more responsive hardware how much would that change your opinion?

    Right now I am hating the HR20-100 interface, but that has more do with the unresponsive RF remote than the interface itself. I am going to have to reserve my judgment until I get that straightened out.
     
  5. Oct 8, 2007 #25 of 302
    HolmesCo

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    I have to admit that does look pretty cool. What is the 'workaround' for the HR20?
    How come I don' have that guide on my R10?
     
  6. Oct 8, 2007 #26 of 302
    Sirshagg

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    As for how to get this on a Tivo: While in the Guide, hit the Info button on your remote and set the Guide Style option to "Tivo Style Guide" or "List Guide".

    The workaround on the HR20 is to highlight the channel number in the guide and press info.
     
  7. Oct 8, 2007 #27 of 302
    armophob

    armophob Difficulty Concen........

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    Unfortunately, I must repeat it.
    #1 for me is the lack of DLB. I am smart enough to get around it, but you asked.
    #2 Trickplay and slow-mo, skip to tick, and FF & RW functions were not flawless, but very easy to get used to. The HR20 has come a long way, but until they get rid of the press and hold it may never work out right.
    #3 The method for setting recordings, and searching for programs was easier. I know it took quite some time to figure out the menus and how they worked. I still find it cumbersome. We have the advantage of this forum for tricks and help.
    #4 Temperature for the 700. Having to buy an after market fan to keep a computer cool is not cool.
    #5 The noise of the HR20 is annoying also.

    #1 advantage for the HR20 is the RF remote feature
    #2 Blue lights are better than the tivo lights
     
  8. Oct 8, 2007 #28 of 302
    tonyoci

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    It's funny because I've never noticed so many of the things people list as issues, no heat, no noise, BACK button gets you out of everything the same way left arrow did etc. etc.

    At a high level

    For DirecTV HR20
    * One touch recording
    * Buttons mostly do the same thing on every screen (which as listed as an advantage of TIVO above but I don't agree)
    * Preview window stays active when browsing menu's

    For DirecTIVO
    * THE GUIDE THE GUIDE (the work around is not remotely the same thing)
     
  9. Oct 8, 2007 #29 of 302
    Grydlok

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    The only thing i miss about the HR10 is the guide. Nothing else.
     
  10. Oct 8, 2007 #30 of 302
    Alan Gordon

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    My first instinctive reply was simply "it just is"... but that's probably too simple.

    First of all, I want to say that I personally don't mind the remote (sure, trying to use the RF function on a -100 sucked, but now that I have a -700, that works fine). Yes, it's no TiVo remote (and the TiVo Series 3 remote is even better than the DirecTV remotes), but I think it's fine. The only issues I really have with it are the DVR buttons (stop and pause being the worst) which are horribly laid out, and absence of a decent skip to tick/bookmark button. Perhaps DirecTV can later update it so that one of the color buttons can be used to do this function. After saying all this, I'm not sure why we are talking about the remote, as I was under the impression that we were talking about the DirecTV/TiVo software?

    I have yet to gripe on these message boards about the lack of DLB, though I do sometimes miss it... and I understand your point, but I disagree. Anytime you have to do a workaround to get the same desired effect, I think it should count.

    A few points I agreed with:

    All that being said, I feel the HR20 has improved since I got it only a few short months ago... and a lot since it came out.

    ~Alan
     
  11. Oct 8, 2007 #31 of 302
    thebarge

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    Yep. I've done this many times. I'm behind about 20 minutes on a non-recording channel and I accidentally lean over and the channel button gets pressed and I lose whatever amount I was behind.

    If it's being recorded it switches you to the other tuner and changes the channel. If both tuners are recording you get the "Are you sure you want to do this?" message.

    I should be able to chime in more on-topic to this thread when my HR20 gets installed tomorrow (or I'll be crazy out of my head when the installer calls to tell me he's not coming like they did with my HR10 install).
     
  12. Oct 8, 2007 #32 of 302
    cartrivision

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    Slow motion (as well as the other "press and hold" functions) is a glaring example of how bad the D* UI design team was/is. When they start with some really dumb design decisions for no apparent reason other than to just do it different (but worse) than Tivo, I completely lose faith that we will ever get basic flaws in the UI fixed. Just the way the closed captioning is turned on/off shows that the UI designers are rank amateurs who seem to have zero education in the basics of correctly designing and implementing a UI. D* needs to hire someone to oversee the high level UI design who is actually qualified to do so.
     
  13. Oct 8, 2007 #33 of 302
    raw121

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    Yes the back button does the same function as the left arrow, but which one is easier to find without looking at the remote?

    I'm not sure that saying the buttons do mostly the same thing on every screen is very high praise. Which buttons perform different on the TiVo in different screens?

    I will agree that having the preview window active can be a good thing, but it has also caused me to see the end of something taping that I was not ready to see. Wasn't able to get to the pause key fast enough. TiVo's ability to pause the buffer while you are in the menu covers this mostly.

    I haven't seen it mentioned here but the 90 minute buffer is a big plus in the hr20's favor. Now if we could just have two of them and be able to easily jump around in them :D
     
  14. Oct 8, 2007 #34 of 302
    Drew2k

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    I'm purposely not reading beyond the opening post so I can add my thoughts.


    What Makes the TiVo UI Better?
    • Trick Play on TiVo is easier regarding jump to start/end of buffer and to next/prev tick mark. There's no irritating and annoying press-and-hold like on the HR20, and there are no tricks to learn for the HR20 if I'm using a universal remote.
    • Buffer Pause Points are remembered in the live buffer while watching something else from the playlist.
    • There are more types of searches: category search, for example, comes to mind.
    • Save to VCR disables all on-screen displays, making it convenient when dumping content to DVD.
    • List Guide - makes it very convenient to quickly see what's on the current channel AND switch to the next channel to quickly see what's on in the next 3 to 6 hour window with very few keystrokes.
    • Reprioritizing using Channel Up/Down to quickly move a season pass up or down a full screen is very convenient. Of course, the downfall is that leaving the season pass manager means you have to wait for 5 to 20 minutes for the changes to be saved.
    • Information - TiVo has more program information, including the original air date, actor/director information, and even category available on-screen when INFO is pressed.

    What Makes the HR20 UI Better?
    • Speed, speed, speed. With guide navigation, menu pop-ups, prioritizer, etc.
    • The 90 minute buffer fits my lifestyle better - love being able to pause on a channel and go walk the dog, chat with the neighbotrs, etc., and come back home 45 minutes later and hit play
    • Having the Picture-in-Graphics available no matter what I do (except signal strengths) makes it easy to check my To Do List, re-prioritize series links, search the guide, run searches by keyword, navigate VOD, etc.
    • Slip - Yes, I was an early hater of SLIP, but I've grown to love it and am now annoyed when I skip on TiVo, because I usually have missed sometihng and need to rewind. With SLIP I can stop the slip early because I can see what I'm slipping past.
    • Group Play - not an option on TiVo
    • Default Recording options - I love being able to specify FIRST RUN, KEEP UNTIL I DELETE and have all future series links set to use these optons.
    • Two-click series links - blows TiVo away with the ease of setting up series links.
    • Media Share - Music and videos without hacking. (Compared to DIRECTV receivers with TiVo serice, not to Stand-Alone TiVo recorders.)
    • Interactive features - not available on DIRECTV receivers with TiVo service.

    For me, just having the first four options on the HR20 list above blows away the entire list of benefits the TiVo has, but there are my reasons ...
     
  15. Oct 8, 2007 #35 of 302
    ampman337

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    As a long time tivo user, having just gotten my HR20 recently I do miss this. (not as much as I miss DLB)
    I have to say though it took awhile, I've become comfortable with the UI.
     
  16. Oct 8, 2007 #36 of 302
    HolmesCo

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    ah ok thx. I was aware of both those things, but had forgotten. I sue the Hr20 thing to decide what I want to record from hbo, starz etc. go thru it a week at a time and hit R for anything i want. A bit tedious but gets the job done anyway.
     
  17. Oct 8, 2007 #37 of 302
    hoopsbwc34

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    I don't think you'll get your answers Earl, because IMHO, to really get at the usability issues, you need to be someone who doesn't post on these boards. My parents are a good example... love the Tivo not the HR20.

    To be useable you almost have to walk someone through what is going on... make it so easy to figure out where they are and what they want to do that there is no question of what is going to happen next. For example, recording. One touch recording is great for me on the HR20, but for someone who isn't used to going through a ton of menus (and has some built-in ability like we do to understand where that menu should be) how do I pad the show a few mintues? When I hit record on the Tivo, from that menu I get a walk through that allows me to just record, or change options and pad the show.... I get to see what those options are right there... I don't have to go and find them later. Or if I want I get a walk through on setting a season pass right there, no button combination to remember (press record twice for a Series Link).

    Another example is Keep Until I Delete... The Tivo, stops recording news shows but doesn't delete the old ones. HR20 deletes it when I reach my max assuming I want to not miss new shows... while that may be true, that's not what "keep until I delete" means (just translating the english not reading anything else into it) Again, not saying which is functionally better.

    I think a lot of what people are talking about here are options and features... little things we like or don't like about one or the other. What usability really means to me is simplicity... that doesn't mean less options (I can got an hack the Tivo to do a lot of things extra, but my parents don't have to worry about that). Making it very easy and intuitive to someone who isn't a computer expert to do the main stuff is what makes it usable.

    Sometimes it feels like the HR20 was designed by computer programers, and the Tivo interface was designed by someone who just liked TV...
     
  18. Oct 8, 2007 #38 of 302
    Alan Gordon

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    I know a lot of people have said that the HR20 is faster, but with the exception of "Season Pass Manager"/"Prioritizor", I've always found the TiVo to be faster. Not by much, but some...

    With DirecTV launching SD-LIL in my DMA soon, my grandmother may be about to switch over to the HR20 so she can get the SD-LIL, and I'm not looking forward to it. While my Grandmother is fairly technically savvy (she has her own blog), when it comes to TV equipment, she's sometimes clueless, but she was using the TiVo in no time flat. My Mom, who is more technically savvy... very really, though again, uninterested in TV equipment picked up how to use a TiVo as fast as anything. She plans to do without the SD-LIL instead of replacing her TiVo.

    TOTAL AGREEMENT!!

    ~Alan
     
  19. Oct 8, 2007 #39 of 302
    dscott72

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    Let me first say that I have only had an HR20-100 for one week and an HR10-250 for over a year, but other DirecTv Tivo's since the beginning.

    Miss the DLB, would love to have it, hope they are working on it, but would rather have all HD channels.

    Remote on the HR20 just taking a bit to get used to. So far no complaints, but from what I read I don't like that the 15 min skip on playback is missing.

    UI is fine on both, but if an MPEG 4 DirecTv/Tivo was available, I would probably get one after a while.

    Recording shows is ok on both, each one has their own quirks. Haven't tried many search features yet, so can't really comment on that.

    I do miss the Tivo guide option, would love that on the HR20.

    On/Off is much easier with just one button to push to turn on and off as opposed to having to go throught he menu to turn the Tivo into standby.

    Like the recording space available feature on the HR20.
     
  20. Oct 8, 2007 #40 of 302
    NorfolkBruh

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    Sorry about the snip hoops! You just typed a finger full and the bottom line, I think, for many of we dual users is in your last line. Nothing else I've read in the long time I've lurked and the short time I've been a member has quite captured the TIVO vs HR20 argument more accurately...

    ...it feels like the HR20 was designed by computer programmers
    and
    the Tivo was interface was designed by someone who just liked TV...
    .
     
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