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FCC Approves Dish Acquisition of Sky Angel's Transponders at 61.5°

Discussion in 'General DISH™ Discussion' started by James Long, Jun 9, 2007.

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  1. JohnH

    JohnH Hall Of Fame

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    Not as bad as getting 148w here in Southeast PA. :)
     
  2. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    R1 (E12) was designed for 61.5° ... with spot beams that cover major cities from the east coast across to Los Angeles. It is "ConUS", but not really a good angle from the West coast. Still, there were Voom DBS subscribers way out West.

    It is a tighter pattern that E3 (also at 61.5°). Some people were annoyed when E* moved HD from E3 to E12 and their "off coast" viewing required a bigger dish or became impossible. :)
     
  3. Michael P

    Michael P Hall Of Fame

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    OK, so what 61.5 transponders are currently coming of E3 vs E12?

    I see a great disparity in signal strength on my 61.5 dish. I ended up tweaking it for the 2 Sky Angel transponders (I presume those are still E3).
     
  4. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    TNGTony keeps track of that kind of detail: http://ekb.dbstalk.com/61-5list.htm

    E12 is not physically capable of covering the even channels 2 through 22 nor channels 25 through 32. It can cover odd channels 1 through 23 and 24.

    E3 is 60% failed and can only cover 79% of the remaining transponders E* is responsible for serving at 61.5° (including serving up SkyAngel). Which leaves four transponders unusable at the moment.

    Yep. E12 doesn't go that high.
     
  5. davethestalker

    davethestalker Godfather

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    Could this mean that I can get all of SkyAngel's lineup without getting more equipment?

    Or, does this mean that SkyAngel is being bought and then the satellites will be used for other things, which means SkyAngel will cease to exist?
     
  6. JohnH

    JohnH Hall Of Fame

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    No.

    Search for discussion on Sky Amgel going to IPTV.
     
  7. Aransay

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    regre it goes the slt hoerp of btn ades dahm
     
  8. Richard King

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  9. tpbrady

    tpbrady Mentor

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    There seems to be some confusion about MPEG2 and MPEG4 and satellites. MPEG2 and 4 are ways to encode video. The satellite is not involved in the encoding process. A satellite will not be reserved for a single format. A transponder probably will because of the DVB standard. For example the Fairbanks and Juneau digital local channels are MPEG4 on the 148 satellite. The best assumption you can make on MPEG4 versus MPEG2 is that any new HD services will be MPEG4 only and be placed on satellites that people's dishes are viewing. That will probably be true for both DirecTV and DISH.

    Digital locals do pose a significant problem. If all local broadcasters go digital on the prescribed date, DISH and DirecTV both face a problem of what resolution to send them in. They would love to send them in the native format provided (1080i HD for example) but would only do that in MPEG4 because they couldn't stand the bandwidth hit otherwise. For most local packages they will probably be forced to offer them in SD format and then start transitioning markets based on the production rates of receivers they could direct to upgrades. Their might be a few key markets where they offer them in a mix of formats, but that might be difficult since I am not sure if you can mix MPEG 2 and 4 in the same DVB multiplex. Even if they run a mix of formats, the lowest common denominator is MPEG2 meaning if they run MPEG4 for HD feeds they will still have to send the same stream in MPEG2SD raising the bandwidth ante.

    The long pole in the tent is MPEG-4 set tops and then bandwidth. If they can produce and deploy enough set tops will they have enough bandwidth to send the locals in HD format?
     
  10. rocatman

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  11. n0qcu

    n0qcu Legend/Supporter DBSTalk Gold Club

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    Not much room, Dish has been using 6 of Sky Angels 8 transponders for quite awhile. They will just belong to Dish now.
     
  12. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    Sort of.

    Transponder failures on E3 at 61.5° have led to a reduction in the number of transponders E* can use ... including not being able to use all six of the transponders they leased from SkyAngel (in exchange for transmitting SkyAngel's signals).

    But you are right, when E* clears off SkyAngel's programming they will have space for up to 12 additional HD channels or 24 SD channels. Not the full 96 HD or 192 SD channels that could be done on eight transponders.
     
  13. aegrotatio

    aegrotatio Legend

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    Concerning Rainbow 1's spot-beams, I am told that in order to use all of them the bird requires 15 separate uplink centers.
    How can this be true? I don't understand how.
     
  14. tnsprin

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    As designed the spotbeam receives an uplink and then downlinks to same area. Not necessary a bad design for spotbeams as the signal otherwise needs some other way to get to a central uplink center, just not what DISH has been doing.
     
  15. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    A correct answer!

    Satellite companies can only uplink on the transponders that they hold license for. E12 (R1) was designed by Rainbow DBS to use their licenses ... 1-21 odd ... plus the two unassigned transponders (23 and 24). In order to get as many downlink beams as they wanted they pretty much had to design an uplink center in every city. Most are paired. For example, the Chicago and Detroit spot beams are designed to be fed from an uplink near Chicago.

    With E*'s other satellites there are a large number of ConUS beams still active. For example, E7 at 119° has 25 spot beams and 16 ConUS beams on the 21 transponder frequencies E* holds license to. Feeding those requires 41 uplinks. E* is able to feed E7 via two uplink centers (21 uplinks per center means 42 possible uplinks ... enough to serve the need).

    Fully active E12 (R1) has more than 100 downlinks. Trying to do that on 13 uplink transponders requires many uplink centers.
     
  16. aegrotatio

    aegrotatio Legend

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    Ahh, thanks for the information.
    The Echostar birds have that much more room for uplinking to multiple spotbeams where the Rainbow-1 original license does not allow for that because they have many fewer spots. Got it.
    Personally I might have opted to have the bird configurable in-flight so as more transponders become available they can do multiple spots per uplink--the TWTAs convert the frequency anyway, just convert to a different one.
    Interesting.
     
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