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First Amendment survey finds knowledge lacking

Discussion in 'The OT' started by Roger, Dec 22, 2003.

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  1. Roger

    Roger Banned User

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    http://www.washtimes.com/national/20031120-104904-8883r.htm

    "More than two-thirds of college students and administrators who participated in a national survey were unable to remember that freedom of religion and the press are guaranteed by the Bill of Rights.
    In surveys conducted at 339 U.S. colleges and universities, more than one-fourth of students and administrators did not list freedom of speech as an essential right protected by the First Amendment of the Constitution.
    More than three-fourths did not name freedom of assembly and association or the right "to petition the government for a redress of grievances."

    More.....
     
  2. jwwahly

    jwwahly Legend/Supporter DBSTalk Gold Club

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    And Teachers In This Area Want More Money!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
     
  3. Bogy

    Bogy Hall Of Fame

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    Unfortunately, the basic qualification to be a member of #43's administration is to demonstrate a complete lack of knowledge of the entire first amendment. :(
     
  4. Roger

    Roger Banned User

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    Crazy Ed Rendell just raised the income tax to piss it down the drain on "education" or rather pay off to the teacher unions that supported him.

    And next year Fast Eddy will try to pass and thus legalize gambling with slot machines which is bad news. Go check out the card I just posted in the Real Guys Pub, jwwahly. This card is not like cookies and milk.:D
     
  5. Bogy

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    I guess my kids went to the wrong schools. They actually came out of them with an education. :D
     
  6. Roger

    Roger Banned User

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    Bogy:

    Well they didn't go to PA schools which are known to spend about the most with the worst or very poor results.

    P.S. It's nice to see you.:)
     
  7. Danny R

    Danny R Goblin the Pug DBSTalk Gold Club

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    Before people go and slam educators and students for not knowing their basic rights, I think one needs to get a better look at how this survey was taken. The points made by the survey questions are certainly pretty biased in my opinion:

    I don't know about you, but I find that the use of the word "should" makes these points very vague. Are they asking if the administrators don't think religious groups have the right to share their views at all, or is it asking if the administrators personally think that religious groups need to prosletise as aggressively as possible, by all available legal means? Two totally different questions.

    Again, is the question intended to ask if religious groups have the right to offend, or just if they the administrators prefer that they avoid offending? I for one also prefer that religious groups don't get in my face, shout obsenities, and do obnoxious things which might offend me but might still be legal if I'm passing through a public forum. This is the sort of behavior I encountered from the "Matt in Hell" group (forget its name) that recently protested on our campus. That doesn't mean I don't agree that they have the right to do so however.

    This question also is very vague. The fact of the matter is that administrators DO have certain obligations prohibiting religious groups from actively trying to convert others. For instance they can't let teachers preach during class time, or lead invocations, etc. That doesn't mean that have carta blanc right to prohibit ALL conversion attempts.

    All in all, the whole "survey" is very biased and ment to make public educators look bad. FIRE, the sponsors of this survey claim to be an "educational foundation devoted to free speech, individual liberty, religious freedom, the rights of conscience, legal equality, due process, and academic freedom on our nation's campuses." However they have an obvious agenda to only promot those individual liberties and freedoms associated with the conservative christian right agenda.
     
  8. Roger

    Roger Banned User

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    Danny:

    Your post and defense is based upon some stuff founded by FIRE at the bottom of the story which is "touch and go" but my point and the only point that matters IMO is this: "In surveys conducted at 339 U.S. colleges and universities, more than one-fourth of students and administrators did not list freedom of speech as an essential right protected by the First Amendment of the Constitution."

    Defend that, Danny? The bottom dwellers in the story are debatable which is why I didn't mention them.
     
  9. Danny R

    Danny R Goblin the Pug DBSTalk Gold Club

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    Defend that, Danny? The bottom dwellers in the story are debatable which is why I didn't mention them.

    I can't defend it without having access to the raw data. Based on what points the survey's promotors did make however, I can only conclude that the questions were probably vague and intended to make the educators and students look bad. A survey or poll can be made to make any point one wishes based on how the question is asked.

    Here, take my survey: "Of the rights guaranteed by the 1st amendment, which do you believe are essential?"

    This question could easily give answers that satisfy the survey results, but as stated its pretty much an opinion question, not one requiring a specific factual answer. People throughout history have lived their lives without the rights guaranteed under the 1st amendment, so its quite easy to say that none of them are "essential" at all and still have a good life.

    So you see, without knowing HOW the questions were asked, the poll's results are totally meaningless and only serve to promote a specific agenda.
     
  10. Roger

    Roger Banned User

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    Well... there's not a hell of a lot to remember: Amendment I (1791)
    Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

    If you can't name all of the above then....
     
  11. Danny R

    Danny R Goblin the Pug DBSTalk Gold Club

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    But we don't know if the question even asked them to describe the 1st amendment in such a matter of fact way.

    The fact that they use the world "essential" strongly makes me think it was a much more biased question. The word essential is never mentioned in any part of the Bill of Rights.

    Asking administrators what they think is an essential part of any portion of government is a matter of opinion only and is largely dependent upon the person's opinion of what the word essential means to them. Essential for life itself? Hardly. Essential for happiness? Nope. Essential for any government? Lots have never had it. Essential for democracy? Perhaps.

    Now of course its possible that the survey in this regard does indeed simply ask people to name all the rights listed in the 1st amendment, and over 3/4th of them left something out. But not listing something on a poll question can't be equated with ignorance of the rights absolutely either.
     
  12. Roger

    Roger Banned User

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    Q1. As you know, the First Amendment is Part of the Constitution. Please name any of the specified rights that are guaranteed by the First Amendment.

    Now you know what question was asked. I solved your problem and rest my case.:)
     
  13. Roger

    Roger Banned User

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    BTW, after looking at the survey the so called "bottom dwellers" by me and everything in your defense was a poll on opinion unlike Q1 which was a question of knowledge.
     
  14. Danny R

    Danny R Goblin the Pug DBSTalk Gold Club

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    In case anyone is interested, here is the survey and its results:

    http://www.thefire.org/pdfs/FIRE-rl_students_report.pdf

    The first question is weakly written... it should omit the words "any of" and just read "Please name the specified rights that are guaranteed by the First Amendment."

    In my defense, "any of" is not synonymous with "all of". Any is defined as meaning One, some, every, or all without specification. But I don't want to sound like Clinton, arguing over the definition of "is". ;)

    So I'll be big about it and give you the point on this one.
     
  15. Roger

    Roger Banned User

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    Hey Danny:

    Spin this all you want and take out "any of" and we'll get the same results. They could have made it hard and asked to name "all of them" LOL! However, they dumbed it down to list "any of" and they still flunked the test.

    You're going to be fun, Danny.
     
  16. Bogy

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    No, I always make sure to move to communities with good schools.

    Nice to see you again as well. :)
     
  17. waydwolf

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    Kinda strange that so few know any of that given that in my school it was taught repeatedly through every elementary grade from third to sixth. Sad.
     
  18. RichW

    RichW Hall Of Fame/Supporter DBSTalk Gold Club

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    When I was a kid in Illinois, we had to pass a test on the US and state Constitutions in order to graduate 8th grade.

    Do states still administer these tests?
     
  19. Bogy

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    They do in the states my kids were educated in.
     
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