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Found out my setup isn't grounded

Discussion in 'DIRECTV Installation/MDU Discussion' started by idigg, May 27, 2009.

  1. idigg

    idigg Legend

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    May 8, 2008
    So I finally got around to installing my Zinwell 6x8 switch, so I could run a 2nd line to my 2nd DVR.

    I mounted the switch, and then started to reroute the coax to the switch, and noticed that the messenger wire from the dish was cut near the grounding block :eek2: It did have a small copper wire going from the grounding block to a cold water pipe, but the actual messenger wire was cut, and I never noticed it.

    Dish network did my initial install, I cut over to DirecTV, and they just mounted the dish and used the existing coax, but DirecTV should have noticed this.

    Anyways, it looks like I need to run a new messenger wire from dish to grounding block? Any recommendations on what I need to run?

    Is it possible to run the messenger wire to my Zinwell switch, then to grounding block, then to grounding location? I put my zinwell switch first, I wasn't thinking.

    Any help is appreciated.
    Justin
     
  2. mobandit

    mobandit Hall Of Fame

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    Why not eliminate the grounding block, totally? That's what I did when I installed a SWM8 module. My ground runs from the dish to the SWM then to the house ground.
     
  3. idigg

    idigg Legend

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    May 8, 2008
    So the zinwell can act as a grounding block then? Any suggestions on where to get a messenger wire?

    Thanks!
     
  4. litzdog911

    litzdog911 Well-Known Member

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    Mill Creek, WA
    That's not an approved electrical grounding method.
     
  5. Mertzen

    Mertzen Hall Of Fame

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    Your option would be to loop the ODU side of the coax runs so that the #17 can reach the ground block. Then get some new coax from the ground block to the WB68 and some #10 solid wire to go to the cold water pipe. If the cold water pipe is copper the ground strap needs to be copper also.

    Example
     

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  6. joe diamond

    joe diamond Hall Of Fame

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    As an installer I use the ground requirement and the phone connection as a litmus test,

    If the installation company even mentions these issues I quit. They will deduct from your completion rate for failure to activate. They will not refuse the installation because of a situation (every apartment) that cannot be grounded or no landline phone connection.

    They will back charge the tech for these items but accept the money for the installation.
    Read all the grounding threads...there are plenty. The case of the multiswitch or SWM will be fine for grounding even though it is not UL approved.

    Joe
     
  7. harsh

    harsh Beware the Attack Basset

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    Because what you're suggesting is in violation of the NEC grounding code.
     
  8. jdspencer

    jdspencer Hall Of Fame

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    What's with the land line requirement?
    DirecTV receivers no longer need one. !!!
     
  9. Mertzen

    Mertzen Hall Of Fame

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    They do, for PPV. D* wants people to buy them on impulse.
     
  10. jdspencer

    jdspencer Hall Of Fame

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    Agreed, but that shouldn't be a requirement for an install.
    PPV can be ordered on the website.
     
  11. racermd

    racermd Legend

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    Dec 17, 2006
    You're unaware that the network connection on the newer boxes send the PPV purchase data (and other stats) back to 'base'. Those boxes do not, in fact, require a phone line connection to enable PPV. For that matter, the phone line connection is not a requirement for much of anything, anymore.

    During my 're-install' (I did most of the work myself, the tech was there mainly to get the dish pointed in the right direction), I told D* that I was definitely NOT going to connect any of them to the phone line. The CSR simply deactivated my ability to do any PPV purchases via the box - fine by me. Netflix is more flexible, anyway.

    The requirement (if you want to call it that) should be re-worded so that either the phone line or the network connectivity on a broadband account would be sufficient. The D* boxes will even test for external connectivity during the connection test.
     
  12. harsh

    harsh Beware the Attack Basset

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    That's a question you need to ask of DIRECTV. It remains a requirement in their most recent customer agreement dated April 29, 2009.
     
  13. TigersFanJJ

    TigersFanJJ Hall Of Fame

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    I think it's pretty safe to say that Mertzen knows about using the network connection for IPPV. BTW, in case you don't know, the network connection isn't available on all newer receivers.

    CSRs have told customers that phone lines weren't required long before any of the receivers had network connections. However, techs still get back-charged for not installing them because it is a Directv requirement. Techs have won multiple lawsuits over this matter, yet the policy still has been unchanged.
     
  14. RobertE

    RobertE New Member

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    Completely correct. Thats one of my nits to pick here. So many people claim that the phone line is not required. Yet the customer agreement says it is.

    It's funny how people pick and choose which agreements they want to follow when it suits them. :nono2:
     
  15. Mertzen

    Mertzen Hall Of Fame

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    :lol::lol::lol::lol:

    Anyway. The installed base of network connected [ connected, not capable ] IRDs is so small that at this point it is insignificant.
    I maybe connected 5 of them to a network over the past year. People don't know, don't care or don't want to pay for it [ yes it is custom work ].

    Phone lines are a requirement so it is still the most 'impulse' it gets. Speak to a CSR, they call it IPPV for impulse PPV.

    The online order process is fine, but gives people plenty of time to reconsider.
     
  16. mobandit

    mobandit Hall Of Fame

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    Well, just goes to show you that sometimes advice from this forum is wrong, then. When I installed my SWM8 I was advised to remove the ground block, as the SWM8 has a ground point that can accomplish the same thing as the ground block. With that being the case, will someone tell me why a ground block is still needed?
     
  17. AntAltMike

    AntAltMike Hall Of Fame

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    College...


    Let me begin by saying that I have not read any NEC version any newer that 2002.

    As of at least 2002, the coax outer conductors had to be grounded as near as possible to the point at which the coaxes enter the building. That would seem to make the switch ground adequate only for meeting the grounding requirement of coaxes that enter the building near that switch.

    One other thing. The ground wire used for that application had to be approximately equal in current carrying capability to the coax outer conductor. I don't know if the language of that requirement has changed or not, but basically, if you have four coaxes coming off a multiswitch and if you want the switch to ground all of them, then the grounding wires going from that switch to ground must have four times as much current carrying capability as does a groundwire deemed adequate for grounding a single coax outer conductor. I believe that is the reason that many multiswitches have multiple groundwire connection terminals on them.
     
  18. randyk47

    randyk47 Icon

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    The DirecTV SWM-8 installation presentation clearly shows the SWM-8 serving as the grounding point with no grounding block in the system. They clearly show the SWM-8 grounded to the main service ground. This might very well be in conflict with NEC.
     
  19. Bluegrassman

    Bluegrassman AllStar

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    FWIW, my installer (DTV contracted) did not install any ground, or any phone lines to any of my 3 receivers. I bought a duplex and phone jumper to install with my DVR myself just for the caller ID. I've thought about the grounding and wondered if I should call D*.
     
  20. BattleZone

    BattleZone Hall Of Fame

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    If the dish was installed close to a valid ground source (within 20' or less), then the installer should have grounded the system. If there is no valid ground source (main power panel/ground rod, or something like an AC or hottub power box) near the dish, then DirecTV isn't going to ground it. They may say "all systems must be grounded..." but the reality is that the cost to properly ground many installations could be several hundred dollars or more, and that would be all custom work payable by the customer. I doubt any customer will pay for that.

    Let me give you an example: you pole-mount your dish in your yard 100' away from the house, and then it's another 60' from there to your main house ground. Minimum NEC rules for a grounding rod are an 8' long 3/8 copper-clad-steel rod (some areas of the country require more than this). But all ground rods must be back-bonded to the main house ground, using 6 gauge solid-copper wire, AND you must drive an additional 8' ground rod every 10' along the way. Do you know what 16 8' long 3/8" diameter ground rods cost? How about 160' of 6-gauge wire? Then you've got a line of ground rods running across the yard with a 6-gauge trip wire strung between them (have fun mowing!). And we haven't even talked about installation labor.

    Satellite companies have to give lip service to grounding, but in the real world, at least 50% of all installs are not grounded, and problems are very, very rare.
     

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