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Gasoline prices soar to record high, no end in sight

Discussion in 'The OT' started by Nick, Mar 21, 2005.

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  1. Apr 3, 2005 #61 of 256
    DonLandis

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    Quantity means nothing. This is a DBS talk forum. How many posts have to do with the subject of DBS and how many have to do with the nonsense in this section. :)
     
  2. Apr 3, 2005 #62 of 256
    JohnGfun

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    Come On...Its the Potpourri Forum! :D
     
  3. Apr 3, 2005 #63 of 256
    SimpleSimon

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    Hmm. Good point. I've seen almost nothing of Bogy's that contributes to the DBS stuff.

    Maybe he's a D* customer - I almost NEVER go there.
     
  4. Apr 3, 2005 #64 of 256
    pjmrt

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    Of course many posts in the DBS forums are complaining about D* and E* - usually rightfully so.:) But there is a lot of good information too. Its helped me through some "not ready for prime time" Dish equipment releases. And besides, where else can one have the fun of this kind (Potpouri forum) diversion? Yeah, I know -- we all probably need to get a life.:lol:
     
  5. Apr 3, 2005 #65 of 256
    ntexasdude

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    He He, the potpouri forum is entertaining and can be educational at times.

    I don't think the thread with 435 posts about Teri Schiavo was nonsense.

    I have read nearly every single post in every single thread for DVR-921 and the new 942. I may not have commented alot but I have learned a tremendous amout about the inner workings of dish equipment. :D
     
  6. Apr 3, 2005 #66 of 256
    Jacob S

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    I made an error, it is $2.37 not $1.37. It was a typo.
     
  7. Apr 3, 2005 #67 of 256
    Nick

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    The...
    Dish's products remind me of the 'mystery meat' they used to serve in the military. In Korea, we swore it was leftovers from the BIG ONE, being WWII. I'm sure that Nam vets had similar gripes, but I digress.

    Anyway, back to the Dish line of satellite deceivers (and the meat comparison), you really never know what you're (not your) going to get, and it seems like no two deceivers are alike in the manifestation of their (not there) various and sundry performance "features".

    Don't get me started about Charlie's STB numbering system, or lack thereof. :confused:
     
  8. Apr 4, 2005 #68 of 256
    olgeezer

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    An unusual price yesterday. The station i stop at change prices per delivery, instead of per market pressure. They went to 2.29 for unleaded, 2.39 for ethanol blend. A regional convenience chain (Casey's General Store) went to 2.17 for unleaded, 2.13 for ethanol blend. this ethanol blend price is on the top (promotional slot) of their gas price sign. I scanned an article in Forbes last week stating that plastic from corn is about 50% of the cost of plastic from petroleum and is biodegradable.
     
  9. Apr 4, 2005 #69 of 256
    Nick

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    The...
    Thanks for getting my very own thread back on topic - sorta.

    So now, instead of "paper or plastic?", my minwage bag-person will be asking "corn or petro?" :confused:

    What worries me is how long those mushed-down finite dinosaur puddles are going to last anyway. Maybe they will keep serving it up 'til I go join the Pope. :engel10:

    Do I hear the unmistakeable sound of a large milkshake straw sucking air? :eek2:

    Should I worry? :shrug:
     
  10. Apr 4, 2005 #70 of 256
    Bogy

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    I am proud to say that very few of the posts I have made were in the DBS sections of this site. :lol:

    I post here (in the NON-DBS portion of the site) because before my move 3 years ago I had DirecTV, and got to know many of the people who post here. As I prepare to move again, there is a good chance I will once again subscribe to one of the services, and have used those forums to help get back up to speed, although I have not been posting, just browsing. I currently have cable, so I have limited my posts in the other sections to threads dealing with cable. Which you guys seem to talk about a LOT when things are slow in the satellite world.
     
  11. Apr 5, 2005 #71 of 256
    ntexasdude

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    How long is a matter of great debate. It could be anywhere from 10 years to a hundred to never depending on who you ask. Some studies out now indicate the oil sands replenish themselves after sitting idle for a number of years.

    I never really bought into the whole dinosaur/fossil theory. If it's true (which I doubt) there must have been a shipload of dinos and how did they get so far down there? We've drilled wells down to 35,000 feet both offshore and terrestrial. There has never been enough living organisms to account for the oil we've already pumped.

    Click here for an alternative viewpoint.
    :)
     
  12. Apr 5, 2005 #72 of 256
    Richard King

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    Boone Pickens, an oil wizzard just on CNBC, says $60 a barrel is coming soon. He says that by this summer demand will be for 87,000,000 barrels a day with a worldwide production capacity of only 84,000,000 a day. The crunch is coming.
     
  13. Apr 5, 2005 #73 of 256
    pjmrt

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    Good link. There are two basic theories - the biogenic (remains of ancient plant and animal life -- which would seem to imply very, very limited supply), and the abiogenic (from hydrocarbons from the solar nebula essentially). Given the amount of hydrocarbons on other planets in our system, and that we have yet to "run out" (as promised for years) - this theory is gaining acceptance.
     
  14. Apr 5, 2005 #74 of 256
    jonstad

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    The natural "supply" may be irrelevant. Maybe we've all been focusing on the wrong factors?

    It is commercial supply AND demand that drives the market. China has become the second largest petroleum consumer surpassing Japan. India, Indonesia and any number of second and third world companies are not far behind.

    Much of this is due to globalization of the world's economy and "outsourcing" of jobs and profits. Thanks to the information revolution brought about by computers and global communications, they(the rest of the world) don't just make our sneakers and transistor radios anymore, they do our taxes, read our x-rays, answer our tech questions and write our software.

    And how do we "fiddle while Rome burns"? We build up unprecedented national debt, financed largely by the same countries calculating our 1040's, who see US bonds and securities as a safe haven to stash the fabulous riches they suddenly find themselves with. They WILL eventually find better uses and all that debt WILL all have to be paid back some day, WITH INTEREST!

    Yes, the "crunch" may be here for petroleum. But the "crunch" that's coming may be much worse as we coast along on our economic laurels, "leveraging" ourselves right out of the top spot!:(
     
  15. Apr 5, 2005 #75 of 256
    Richard King

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    I hate to say it, but finally, someone gets it. That's almost worthy of inclusion in my sig. :D As for the conspiracy stuff after this, that really makes no difference. Economies around the world are growing. It's a fact of life. Because of the growing economies more countries will be taking a chunk of the available resources, whether oil, gas, lumber or cement. If we kept all the jobs here development in these countries would slow to a crawl and in a few years liberals would be wondering why they hate us so much. :D
     
  16. Apr 5, 2005 #76 of 256
    JohnGfun

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    WOW! Gas went up to $2.43 per gallon here! Big Jump!
     
  17. Apr 6, 2005 #77 of 256
    Bogy

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    Well, I'm glad Jon gets it, and Richard almost gets it, because this is the same understanding I have had for some time now. It is a global market, and as the rest of the world catches up to us, they are going to use and demand a share of more of the resources we have taken for granted as being "ours" for a long time. It is NOT that we are declining, but they are rising. The part Richard does not get is that he only states that if we kept all the jobs development in other countries would slow, and liberals wouldn't understand why they hated us. Now if Richard can just move to an understanding that conservatives don't care if they hate us, as long as they continue to get cheap goods.

    We ALL need to understand that the fact that economies around the world growing is a good thing, which will mean stability, and a decline in world population, in the long run, but will cause stress in the short term. That is something ALL of us need to understand, liberals and conservatives. Leadership continuing to tell us we can have it all, and deserve it because we are Americans, no matter how the rest of the world suffers is not what this nation or the world needs. The question is if Bush has the stones to tell the nation the hard truth? Heck, I would wager that most of us here live in homes that would house most of a village in many parts of the world. I do. 3 of us live in house with 2600 sq. feet. And of course we "need" the fuel to "appropriately" maintain the temp at a comfortable temp. year round. Hey, I'm saying I want to give it up any time soon, but I recognize we have it very good. Higher heating/cooling bills are part of the price we pay for what we have. Just like putting gas in an F150 and 4 cars.

    BTW, gas is bouncing around $2.19 in the Omaha area, and my mother in law reports its over $3 in southern Cal.
     
  18. Apr 6, 2005 #78 of 256
    Mike123abc

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    With higher gas/oil prices a few of things will happen:

    1. People will cut back some. But, it appears that the price will have to go much higher before people are really feeling the pain to cut back. For example right now I do not think about the price of gas when I go somewhere. If I need to go somewhere I just go, perhaps if it cost $100 to fill a tank I would be much more conservative.

    2. More production will come online. There is a lot of oil that is too expensive to extract unless the price goes high enough. The other problem is that people do not want to start extracting it (i.e. paying for all the equipment and drilling) if they thing oil prices are going to drop again. So, this probably will take a while.

    3. New and innovative ways to save gas/oil will come out. Especially when the price goes high enough to justify the expense of the savings (like making a hybrid actually pay for itself without a tax break). I just read an article in Forbes where they predict that ALL cars sold by 2015 will be hybrids. They predict this because the cost of producting a hybrid is dropping fast and gas prices going up will make it the only way to go by then.

    Of course a few years ago there was a big run up in oil prices, then the market suddenly found itself with over supply... Gas was down in the 60-70cent range in some areas of OK. It will be interesting to see how long demand can keep going up, perhaps China and India et all will finally use enough to keep the price up long term.
     
  19. Apr 6, 2005 #79 of 256
    Bogy

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    The advantage developing nations have over the U.S. is our dated infrastructure. Infrastructure that we just can't justify junking. They don't have to junk it, they can start with modern infrastructure. Examples. Most developing nations jump right to cell phones, with no expensive wires strung everywhere. Manufacturing facilities not only have access to less expensive labor, but they are brand new, with more efficient machinery and much lower energy costs per unit. At this point they may dream of a big SUV, but for most of them that would be something in the Escape class. :D

    I think you can expect China and India et all to keep up demand for a long long time. Just those two nations represent a huge percentage of the world's population, and it is going to be years before the pent up demand is met. The time to start looking for alternatives was ten years ago. The best way to decrease our dependence upon the middle east for energy is not to try to squeeze out a few more barrels of crude from tapped out wells in Texas and Oklahoma, or even Alaska, but to develop entirely new sources of energy at a reasonable cost point. The day is coming when petroleum stock will be worth as much as whale oil stock. That disaster, well prophesied as threatening the economy of our nation, was averted, even though Wonder Whale Oil and Amalgamated Buggy Whip didn't survive.

    For a bunch of first adopters, some of you guys can sure be a bunch of Luddites. :lol:
    Must come from not having any real sense of history. Those who don't remember history are condemned to repeat it. :sure:
     
  20. Apr 6, 2005 #80 of 256
    jonstad

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    Thanks for your support.;) BUT!!!

    I don't see it as a conspiracy and am sorry if that's how I came across. I see what I believe will be the inevitable result of our overconfidence and complacency. I don't begrudge India or China their share of the pie, although I wish we we would put the screws to China a little more on human rights and democracy, but that's a different thread. In fact, it's been generally "liberals" who've been pushing to include the rest of the world in our affluence. But then it was always characterized as "wealth redistribution". Only now, conservatives(actually businesspersons) have come to the realization at least a few of them can become obscenely rich by "sharing the wealth".

    I see no reason this rising tide cannot lift all boats. But our boat is pretty old and full of patches and quick fixes, AND loaded down by inertia and our own accouterments of wealth and power. Perhaps it's time for a new boat or at least a complete overhaul of this one. We can't keep afloat by "borrowing" floatation. And I'm not just talking about money here.

    My point about outsourcing was we are not only sending widget jobs overseas anymore. As regrettable as that may have been for American widget workers, it was probably inevitable. And we could compensate at least to a point by retraining the widgeteers to other less labor intensive jobs. But we are now surrendering the intellectual, entrepeneurial and inventive high ground. There's no reason someone in Bombay can't design as good or better a software program or vacuum cleaner as someone in Silicon Valley or Cleveland, AND do it for less money!

    And the "borrowing" I refer to is this same brain power. For decades, centuries probably, we've "borrowed" foreign intellect in the form of the best and brightest from across the globe who've come to the US to be educated, and often stayed, as engineers and scientists and even doctors and lawyers. And they stayed because this was where the action and opportunity was. Returning to their homelands was not an attractive alternative. Now however, even IF they are educated here, the action and opportunities may be better back in Bangalor or Nanking. In fact, they're almost certainly better there.

    It's not going to be easy. But we need to revamp our educational system and more importantly inspire our youth with the same ambition and vigor of those across the third world who see and can't wait to seize the opportunities that await them and are clearly in their reach.

    Unfortunately, as long as we imagine we are "God's chosen people" and "God's favored nation" and therefore invincible, and do nothing else but rest on our laurels, we will find we are indeed quite "vincible".
     
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