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General advice for very large install.

Discussion in 'DIRECTV General Discussion' started by Todd2, Mar 5, 2013.

  1. Mar 5, 2013 #1 of 19
    Todd2

    Todd2 Cool Member

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    A good friend of mine is currently building a very large home. He wanted to take on installing all the home automation and wiring like cat6a, speaker wires everywhere, alarm, rg6, etc.

    I am familiar with the swm setups. I have a self installed swm 16 with a hr34, hr24, and an old hr21. But his install is on a whole new level.

    He will have 21 hi def tvs. He feels he will not need very many DVR tuners since they do not record much at all. But I suggested if possible putting a hr34 in 2 locations and regular hd receivers in the others.


    With all that said, can anyone give some general input or specifics on the following?

    1) wiring considerations for this setup. I already told him to run 4 feeds from sw corner of house to media closet. He will have 3 cat6a lines at each location plus 2 rg6 lines.

    2). What kind of swm setup would work for 21 tvs? Any preferred setups?

    3) he will be new to directv. At input on account setup etc? Is this in the level where he may need some kind of commercial account?
     
  2. Mar 5, 2013 #2 of 19
    Brandon Wedgeworth

    Brandon Wedgeworth Administrator Staff Member Administrator DBSTalk Gold Club

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    First problem I see with your suggestion is that you can't have more than 1 HR34(Genie) per account at this time.
     
  3. Mar 5, 2013 #3 of 19
    NR4P

    NR4P Dad

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    The Genie comment above is correct. Maybe it will change in the future.

    The large install with 21 TV's will need 2 SWM16's. That enables up 32 tuners and WHDVR. There could be one Genie, 7 HR24's, and 13 H25's. As an example. Other combinations are possible, including a few clients.

    But the WHDVR playlist could be very very long if all HR's share playlists.

    If WHDVR is never contemplated, then the commercial SWM32 can be in its place.

    For a SWM system, only one RG6 cable per room is needed. But I like the idea of a second one. For OTA if needed in the future.

    Cat5/6 cable. Not needed with SWM system except where the Genie is. So whatever the number per room is at the owner's desire.

    Ought to be an interesting system.
     
  4. Mar 5, 2013 #4 of 19
    Todd2

    Todd2 Cool Member

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    Didn't know only one hr34 per account. That sucks but he can definitely get a couple hr24s to make up for it.

    He would probably only need those 3 dvr's but
    Then need use whole home to watch recordings across the house. Does having that many client boxes cause any complications?
     
  5. Mar 5, 2013 #5 of 19
    dpeters11

    dpeters11 Hall Of Fame

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    Biggest thing is number of remote streams. An HR34 supports three remote streams at once, a HR20-24 only one each.

    For that kind of install, I would go with an installer with experience on large installs, not just who gets the job when setting up service like a normal customer.
     
  6. Mar 6, 2013 #6 of 19
    DTV101412

    DTV101412 Cool Member

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    SWM 32 and be done with it
     
  7. Mar 6, 2013 #7 of 19
    spartanstew

    spartanstew Dry as a bone

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    I agree, you need a custom installer. Ideally, I wouldn't imagine many of the TV's would be viewed at the same time, so he'd probably want to have 4 DVR's stacked somewhere (wiring closet) and distribute the HD signal to all the TV's in the house.
     
  8. Mar 6, 2013 #8 of 19
    carl6

    carl6 Moderator Staff Member DBSTalk Club

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    How many simultaneous viewings of recordings will he need? As noted, an HR34 can stream to 3 devices at one time, an HR2x DVR can stream to one other device at a time. There is also a limit on how many whole-home streams can be done at one time. They need to plan locations where live TV is the primary or only option for the non-DVR locations, and carefully choose the locations that need/get DVRs.
     
  9. Mar 6, 2013 #9 of 19
    gov

    gov Legend

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    Even with 21 TVs, not all of them are going to 84 inch Sony 4K displays, so the small TV sets would need ID'd and if customer wants a small C-31 mounted behind them. for instance, a small 19" TV in the 3rd floor maids laundry room might be wall mounted, and a little C-31 mounted behind it would be fine.

    Seems like they limit C-31s to 3 per HR34, so plan that out. And as for HR-34, I can imagine limit not being a limit for that long.

    2 RG-6 cables per location is great idea, might even consider 3 for HT and other 'main' locations just for future expansions. Or maybe conduit those runs to central utility area for recabling in 10 years when the DirecTV HR-1000 comes out with the Total Whole Home Virtual Reality 4D Transmogrific Hyper Multi-Experience 8K 1000 channel HHHDDDD recorder.
     
  10. 996911

    996911 Go Pack!

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    Only 1 stream though is HD correct? (Component, S-Video, and Composite) **edit....I think carl was referring to sending a recorded stream to another receiver rather than sending a mirrored stream**

    I am going through the same thing and actually asked about this very thing since the home we are building is rather large (at last count I think we are doing about 15 HDTVs). We actually just finished up all the wiring. By we, I mean a custom installer that I have worked with in the past on my last home.

    We wanted a TV in more rooms than I wanted D* receivers so the solution was to determine how many connections can be mirrored from others. For example, my home office and the garage will be mirrored. THe workout room and one of the exterior decks will mirror each other. The master and the master bath will mirror, and so on.

    From each of the locations that will mirror there were two extra lines run between them (cat6 and a 5 wire) so we can have both HDMI ends and Component (A&V) ends installed.

    The most important thing is that you game plan IN ADVANCE before you go to drywall. We also installed a ton of wire chases (conduits) and also have a dedicated A/V closet where everything runs into.

    Then....on top of that, make sure there is more wiring than is needed at each location and possible future locations so nothing has to be run in the future. Much cheaper to run a bunch of extra Cat6 and RG6 now and not need then to need in the future and not be able to run it.
     
  11. veryoldschool

    veryoldschool Lifetime Achiever Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    While this would cover 32 SAT tuners, it also breaks up the whole home/MRV into four separate groups.

    Wanting 21 HD TVs will take some serious planning, as it exceeds the limits of the connected home networking.

    Starting with the SAT feeds, a SWiM-32 will support 8 SAT tuners one each of its four outputs, but these four outputs don't share the coax networking, so you have four separate groups. These four groups may be able to be bridged through ethernet.

    A SWiM-16 does bridge its two outputs for the coax networking, so all 16 tuners will be networked.
    Two SWiM-16s can be bridged through ethernet.

    Next is to define what is wanted at each HD TV.
    How many want access to recordings, and are there any that will be simply for watching "live TV"?

    The Genie will stream three at the same time, while a HR2x only streams one [ea]. A Genie can have up to 8 clients, but only 3 can be used at the same time. This might be a problem if someone wants to watch at a forth location, as one of the other clients will need to be turned off.
    An HD receiver [since it has its own tuner] doesn't require something else to be turned off, but may not be able to play a recording if the Genie/DVR is already streaming to other TVs.
     
  12. veryoldschool

    veryoldschool Lifetime Achiever Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    After deciding what features are wanted at each HD TV, the cable layout and losses will be the next thing to sort out. The SWiM/SAT signals can be amplified if needed, but there aren't any amps for the coax networking.
     
  13. Beerstalker

    Beerstalker Hall Of Fame

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    Really sounds to me like you need to be thinking about some kind of home video distribution setup. Running HDMI or Cat 6 to the locations for the TVs, and having a big video matrix switch in the media closet. It seems like a waste of money to have 21 different DirecTV receivers in the house costing $120 a month in mirror fees alone. It wouldn't take long for that to add up to enough to cover the cost of a proper distribution system. Then it sounds like you could probably get away with one genie and a 3 clients since they doesn't record that much. Would being able to watch 4 different programs thoughtout the house at the same time be enough? This way the mirroring fees are only $18/month.

    Of course if they are building a house with 21 TVs throughout it they probably aren't going to worry about $100/month in extra receiver costs.
     
  14. gov

    gov Legend

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    Might also consider HD modulators. I think they are around $800/channel now, maybe just have same number of HD mods as people in the house, same # of D* tuners/DVRs, and just flip channels on each TV. makes it easy for parents to monitor what kids are watching in opposite end of the house, just flip to channel 63 and see what they are on.

    (might need a remote control repeater system, but for a high $$$ install no biggee)

    You could add a couple channels for blu-ray players. Adding HD modulators to an OTA system can't be any harder (I hope) than doing SD ones, and I've done a 100s of those.


    I wonder if HDCP is a problem with mods?
     
  15. gov

    gov Legend

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    You could add some SD modulators for a driveway camera, front door camera, and a few others if you want.

    Put in a blu-ray changer instead of a player, just thought of that.
     
  16. Beerstalker

    Beerstalker Hall Of Fame

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    I almost mentioned HD modulators but I didn't because last I knew most of them only supported 1080i or 720p. I didn't know if this person used DirecTV's VOD at 1080p, or would want to try to use blu-ray players, 3D material, etc which I don't know if any of them support yet.
     
  17. carl6

    carl6 Moderator Staff Member DBSTalk Club

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    Correct, I was referring to whole-home streaming from a DVR to another DirecTV receiver, DVR or client.

    All of the outputs on DirecTV receivers are active, so you can have an hdmi connection to a local tv and component video to a remote tv. However, this could run into a problem with copy protection on premium channels. If the hdmi set is off, the component output won't work. In these cases, using an hdmi switcher and running hdmi to both locations is preferred.

    For something as complex as 30+ tv locations, some of the other approaches may well be worth exploring (such as hd modulators).
     
  18. lugnutathome

    lugnutathome Hall Of Fame

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    Also if this place is that large, line lengths might be an issue. Sounds like cost is secondary perhaps RG11 instead of RG6? (I have some DECA signal strength issues on my 191 and 145 ft runs such I am bridged to home LAN for some of my Direct TV equipment. I keep toying with upgrading the cables at least for the long runs. At least 2 coax drops per location. One for Sat, the other for off air including FM. 3 if you think you might stack two sat receivers in any one location.

    I would definitely go with the Cat6 cabling wherever possible even if most of the runs are unused or end up as drops for wireless access points throughout the palace. Nice if they aren't shared on a local switch with computers and printers.

    You might even consider an optical net set up for one of the lines if moving forward bragging rights are are at stake down the road.

    It is nice during the build stage if you've the resources to incorporate all these pieces. Probably though in 10 years wires will be obsolete at the rate wireless networking is changing.

    Also consider non conventional rooms. When I had my home strung out, I didn't run a terminal block for the kitchen/dining area, nor the laundry/beading room, nor the sewing room my wife spends hours in.

    If I had it to do over again, I'd have used RG11, doubled my Cat5e lines, and added the three extra service terminals. But what I have works perfect for what I have so:shrug:

    Don "anything worth doing is worth doing to excess I always say" Bolton
     
  19. DTV101412

    DTV101412 Cool Member

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    Far as sharing a playlist with a 32 use a wifi deca for each SWM splitter problem solved
     

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