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h25-700 satellite dish

Discussion in 'DIRECTV Installation/MDU Discussion' started by ken28e, Nov 30, 2013.

  1. ken28e

    ken28e New Member

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    Oct 28, 2013
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    I am running a dtv h25-700 on a slimline swm 5 lmb dish. Is there another dish i can use that doesn't need it's own 21 or 29 volt power inserter. Trying to shave off the 10 watts the dish power supply uses when running on battery power. Thanks Ken
     
  2. studechip

    studechip Godfather

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    No, the H25 only works on a swm setup, which requires a power inserter.
     
  3. jimmie57

    jimmie57 Hall Of Fame

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    You could get an H24 and BBC converter and go back to a conventional dish that is not SWM.
     
  4. inkahauts

    inkahauts Well-Known Member

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    I do believe the h24 would pull more power to drive the lnb though in that case. Not positive but I think it be a wash at best.
     
  5. Dec 1, 2013 #5 of 21
    studechip

    studechip Godfather

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    I suspect the combination of the H25 and the power inserter is more voltage and watts compared to a single H24. Just guessing.
     
  6. Dec 1, 2013 #6 of 21
    carl6

    carl6 Moderator Staff Member DBSTalk Club

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    While there may be a small difference, I doubt it would save the full 10 watts the original poster is trying to cut. I've got everything except an H25 to actually measure and compare. Curious as to why shaving 10 watts is important - are you off grid?
     
  7. Dec 1, 2013 #7 of 21
    Laxguy

    Laxguy Honi Soit Qui Mal Y Pense.

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    He mentions battery operation.

    You (he, actually!) could unplug the PI when not in use.
     
  8. Dec 1, 2013 #8 of 21
    slice1900

    slice1900 Well-Known Member

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    How did you measure 10 watts for the dish power supply? I've heard a SWM LNB requires about 18 watts, which is about what you'd expect given that it is a legacy LNB + a SWM8.

    Assuming that figure is wrong, as suggested by jimmie57, replace the LNB with a non-SWM version and replace the H25 with a H24. That should save you close to 10 watts, because the SWM LNB has a built in SWM8, and those draw just over 9 watts on their own. However, as you can see from the below list, the H24 draws a little bit more power than the H25 (depending on the model of each) but the difference is much less than what you'd be saving by no longer powering SWM.

    Since a legacy LNB requires about 9 watts, you'd total about 23 watts while watching TV on (for example) a H24-200. 20 watts if it is turned off but still plugged in. Your H25-700 draws 10 watts, but the SWM LNB is probably pulling around 18, for a total of 28 in your current config, or 27 when it is turned off but still plugged in. That's not the 10 watts you wanted, but is as close as you'll get unless you switch to SD and go with a D12-700 :)

    However, if you're really drawing only 10 watts now, I don't think there is any way to save more. How much are you measuring when the H25 is turned on? Does it match the power draw shown in the energy star list? If not, what you're measuring with is probably off.

    http://www.energystar.gov/ia/products/prod_lists/set_top_boxes_prod_list.pdf
     
  9. Dec 1, 2013 #9 of 21
    P Smith

    P Smith Mr. FixAnything

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    I would say it's most likely 4.5W (sustain current is 300-350 mA), especially if disconnect 110W and 119W LNBFs
     
  10. slice1900

    slice1900 Well-Known Member

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    According to Sonora, it is 200mA on the 18v lines, and 50mA on the 13v lines. But those are maximum values, maybe they don't really draw that much and there may also be some different between manufacturers.

    You're probably right about 110/119, a SL3 would be a better choice than a SL5 unless he watches something from 119. May be a watt or less of difference, but when you're trying to scrape up 10 watts, every bit helps :)

    The other advantage to using a legacy receiver is that there is only one thing to unplug if you want to go to 0 watts instead of two!
     
  11. studechip

    studechip Godfather

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    This thread reminds me of the movie Apollo 13!
     
  12. carl6

    carl6 Moderator Staff Member DBSTalk Club

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    This thread, and another about battery operation, got my curiosity going. I dug out some of my old equipment and did some quick measurements.

    Dish: 5 LNB Slimline (regular, not SWM).
    Receiver: D11-500. Power draw 10.9 watts (using composite video output)
    Receiver: H21-200 with b-band. Power draw 22 watts (using composite video output)
    Both receivers are inactive currently, but I let them power up to complete boot up and have stable satellite signal.
    In both cases, the individual receiver was the only thing connected to the dish and was providing all dish/LNB power.

    Tomorrow I will repeat the test with an 18" round dish. I suspect that will have a substantially lower current draw than the 5 LNB dish.
    This test shows the standard def D11 has half the power draw as the H21-200 HD receiver.

    Time permitting, I'll also try with a 5LNB SWM LNB and the H21, to try and get a comparison between the SWM and non-SWM. I've also got a 3LNB non-SWM LNB which I would guess would draw a little less power than the 5LNB. Again, time permitting I'll try that also. I'll just edit/update this post as I get more information.

    Edit - update: The D11 powering an 18" round dish pulls 10.4 watts, so not as much difference as I had anticipated. Don't have time today to do anything further.
    Edit - update: Today the D11 is pulling 11.4 watts, and I also hooked up the H21 to the 18" dish and it is pulling close to 19 watts.
     
  13. P Smith

    P Smith Mr. FixAnything

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    Thanks carl6. It would be interesting to make a table [matrix] with all your measures for better digesting :)
     
  14. cabletech

    cabletech Legend

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    My only question is, how is everyone doing these meserments?

    Are you using one of these watt-o-meters that plug into the wall AC? What are you using to just get the LNB readings?

    In order to get JUST LNB readings, you need to do some special wire splitting between the reciever or power inserter and the lnb other wise the readings are not valid.

    And I would bet that carl6 readings would be the same if not connected to the LNB.
     
  15. carl6

    carl6 Moderator Staff Member DBSTalk Club

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    That's all I'm doing, a Kill-a-watt meter reading the power to the receiver. The receiver is powering the LNB with no other equipment attached (so I know the LNB is being powered by that particular receiver). I could setup a test jig to measure DC current to the LNB, but don't know what value that would have.

    Note, I edited post 12 to include D11 & 18" round dish - not much difference from 5LNB slimline (much less than I expected).
     
  16. slice1900

    slice1900 Well-Known Member

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    cabletech: Using a kill-o-watt to measure everything is probably the best way to measure this in terms of the power draw most people would experience. Theoretically if you had DC power available (bypassing an inverter or whatever) you could feed 24v power directly to a SWM16, or to a polarity locker, and save the power supply inefficiency and inverter loss. For most of us it is the power that is required as input to a switching power supply is what we're concerned with for power draw.

    If you measure the difference in power requirement between a receiving running in SWM mode versus powering the LNB, you are getting the LNB power plus the power supply inefficiency (which should be 15% or so for Energy Star rated equipment) But unless you tear open the receiver and feed it DC power bypassing the power supply, you're going to incur that loss.

    I am curious how ken28e is measuring his power. I'm assuming he his measuring it through his inverter. I doubt the readings would be exactly the same.
     
  17. ken28e

    ken28e New Member

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    Oct 28, 2013
    WI
    Thanks for all your replies. I thought I could get a lnb or dish and maybe just get sd with the h25-700. Going from 28 to 19 watts could give me 9 more calculated hours of battery life. Going from 43 to 28 gave me 6 real hours. Also I don't get sat. 119, about 10 trees in the way. With my current setup I only don't get local GB 32 of all the channels on my list. Measured everything with a kill-o-watt. Lnb by plugging 21 volt inserter into k-o-w. Dtv tech also told me 18 watts,which is why I bought a k-o-w to check. Not the same tech that told me she didn't know what ac or dc was when I had a battery question. H25-700 10.2 watt 21 volt inserter 9.3 watt Led tv 8 watt. Kill-o-watt plugged into inverter with everything plugged in and running 27-29 watts unplug after each use.
     
  18. carl6

    carl6 Moderator Staff Member DBSTalk Club

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    Well, you can shave close to 10 watts off by going to an SD receiver and a round dish. Your cutting the 21 volt power inserter out of the equation, and the receiver (powering the dish) is pulling about the same as your H25. The question is whether or not going to SD on your LED tv will be acceptable or not.
     
  19. ken28e

    ken28e New Member

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    Oct 28, 2013
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    Thanks carl6 this is exactly what I'm after, eliminating the 10 watts the dish is using. Which lmb /dish/ receivers combos should I be looking for. Thanks KEN
     
  20. carl6

    carl6 Moderator Staff Member DBSTalk Club

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    Another edit to post 12. The HD receiver is pulling about 19 watts using the 18" dish, and the D11 is pulling about 11.4 watts. So there is clearly a power savings by using the SD receiver. Less difference using the 18" dish versus the Slimline.

    I only have a D11-500, older SD receiver to test with, I don't have a D12. If anyone out there can do a power measurement with a D12 that would be good. I also do not have an H25, so can't test with one of those.

    Otherwise, I would say going to SD will save you more like 7 or 8 watts, maybe not 10, and you could use either a D11 or D12 receiver (assuming you can find a used one to buy). A small power savings, but maybe enough to make it worth the effort.
     

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