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Has anyone ever "Suffered the Consequences" of opening a leased DVR?

Discussion in 'DIRECTV HD DVR/Receiver Discussion' started by Throckmorton, Feb 22, 2009.

Have you "Suffered the Consequences"?

  1. Yes - I was punished by D* for returning a DVR with the seal broken.

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  2. No.

    2 vote(s)
    1.7%
  3. I'm just clicking this one so I can see the results.

    113 vote(s)
    98.3%
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  1. Tom Robertson

    Tom Robertson Lifetime Achiever DBSTalk Club

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    The problem with "Reductio Ad Absurdum" is logically tying it back to the premise. In this case, if DIRECTV feels harmed, they will charge a reasonable fee. If they attempt an unreasonable fee, they will never get customers. :)

    So I'm pretty sure, while they might legally be able to raise the fee to $5 zillion, they would lose much, much more if they did so never would.

    Cheers,
    Tom
     
  2. Throckmorton

    Throckmorton Godfather

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    Uh, lol, no.
     
  3. hdtvfan0001

    hdtvfan0001 Well-Known Member

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    That pretty much says it all.
     
  4. t_h

    t_h Icon

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    I think I've expandiod ad absurdium ;)

    My point wasnt that they could create absurd fees. It was that there doesnt appear to be a specified fee for anything other than not returning the box or returning it broken. But due to the terms of the contract, they could institute one today if they wished and unless a customer canceled their service, a fee for 'tampering' or 'altering' would apply.

    Then we could revisit what constitutes "tampering" and "altering", since there seems to be a good bit of variability in what "relocating" and "moving" means. ;)
     
  5. Mike Bertelson

    Mike Bertelson 6EQUJ5 WOW! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    :scratchin

    Hypothetically speaking….

    Let’s assume that the receiver is not opened to merely look inside.

    Now, if I replace a fan or a drive then I have altered the receiver. I don’t think anyone can deny that changing what’s in there is altering the receiver.

    Tampering; one could argue that opening the receiver for the purposes of “upgrading” something would be contrary to DirecTV’s intended purpose. As such that could be considered tampering.

    Does anyone know if the screws on the drive or fan are marked so that someone can tell if they’ve been removed?

    Mike
     
  6. paulman182

    paulman182 Hall Of Fame

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    The fact is, we don't know exactly what DirecTV would consider "tampering," but if I had a dead unit and I had even removed the screws, I'd be worried about returning it.

    Doesn't matter what our lawyer friends say. Fighting this would be a lot bigger deal to me than it would to them.
     
  7. DarinC

    DarinC Hall Of Fame

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    But one can certainly make the argument that changing out the internal drive isn't much different from adding an external drive. One requires screws to be screwed while the other doesn't. Adding an external drive isn't supported, but doesn't seem to be considered nearly as controversial.

    I had to change out a bad drive in one of my HR21s, and I'm 95% sure that they weren't. Granted, that unit is owned, but honestly, I would not have had qualms doing it with my leased unit either (though that one has an external drive, mostly because I know that if the drive fails, I can just unplug it and have that unit up and running again in a matter of minutes). There is no space for an external drive on the owned unit, so that was never an option.
     
  8. t_h

    t_h Icon

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    I cant disagree. My point was that it appears that many people brushed by the clause to not "relocate" the box, and feel its fine to move the box from one place to another inside the home or even to move it themselves to a new residence. They felt fairly free to apply their own definition of "relocate". But then put the brakes on when it came to "alter". Altering is interpreted as opening the box, against the terms of the lease agreement: immoral. Relocating the box: moral.

    Maybe I'm seeing this too much as a black and white thing, but if you feel that violating any reasonably interpreted aspect of the agreement is immoral, then so are any other violations.

    Are you altering if you replace your old LNB with a SWM you bought online, or a better LNB? How about adding a ground wire to the dish and cabling, since the installers rarely put them in? You're substantially changing aspects of the system, and if you do it wrong, could cause the equipment to stop functioning properly or even damage it.

    If you installed a ground and shortly thereafter a receiver stopped working, would you expect to pay $470 when returning it?

    If you stick a disk drive in it but return it with the original disk in it, have you altered it?

    If you move to a new house, take your dish and receivers and reinstall them in the new home, have you relocated them?
     
  9. johnp37

    johnp37 Icon

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    I have had first hand experience with a refurb(one of many). This particular one arrived securely packaged, no damage of any kind to the exterior of the box it came in, not even scuff marks. Lo and behold when I opened it up the left front panel corner was severely cracked, the top left and right rear corners of the case were dented. As upset as I was when I saw this damage I went ahead and activated it, advising the rep of the damage. Needless to say, functionality was shot, no HD channels, pixelation and lockups throughout. Called right back to deactivate and sent it back once I got the recovery kit. Subsequent refurb o.k., so far. My sad story of a refurb being told, please explain to me what refurbishing is supposed to accomplish. Seems to me I got a repackaged piece of junk. It looks like I'm one of the "other poor guys"
     
  10. Stuart Sweet

    Stuart Sweet The Shadow Knows!

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    Yes, but calling Movers' Connection could be construed as getting permission for that from DIRECTV.
     
  11. paulman182

    paulman182 Hall Of Fame

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    I think that DirecTV might try to blame the failure on the customer if they determine he opened the box, whether he actually "tampered" or not.

    The dish is considered to be customer property.
     
  12. t_h

    t_h Icon

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    And another 2 year extension of your customer commitment.

    So is what you're saying that you believe that moving a receiver within a home or to a new home is a violation of the lease agreement?
     
  13. t_h

    t_h Icon

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    I would anticipate that for a box that was used for a short time period (under a year) and was returned in good working order, blow the dust out of it and wipe it off, and rebox it.

    For a unit used for more than a year, or returned defective, that the defective component would be replaced, wear-sensitive components like the disk drive and fan replaced, and fully tested for operation within certain tolerances and guidelines.

    I dont know if thats how it works but thats how I'd hope for it to work. I'd hate to think they just wipe the box off, run it through its self test and if it passes, send it back to a customer.
     
  14. Stuart Sweet

    Stuart Sweet The Shadow Knows!

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    I believe that it's possible that moving it from one place to another without notifying the owner of the equipment might be construed as a violation, yes. I do not believe that moving it from one place to another within the home is a violation.
     
  15. Tallgntlmn

    Tallgntlmn Icon

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    Does it really add another 2 year extension? In that case, does it really make sense to call MC? Does MC give you free install at the new place? I realize MC gives them a way to get the next person who moves in because you are supposed to leave your dish.

    I am probably going to have to upgrade. I also plan on moving in less than 4 months depending on the job situation. I was simply going to yank my dish, take my equipment to the new place, hook it up and be happy. Of course, I would let D* know later or if I couldn't acquire signal. My billing address never changes due to being a PO Box, only the service address changes. I may rethink that but it's usually what I do. I wouldn't want to be charged by my complex for leaving a dish. At the same time, even if it is a violation, would they bother charging me if I remain a customer and am happy?

    I have moved as described above previously while under agreement and never got extended. I've been without an agreement since 1/06. I moved in 6/04 and 6/07. But I never called MC because I didn't need to due to the install being so easy. And it was not leased equipment.
     
  16. Rich

    Rich DBSTalk Club DBSTalk Club

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    Who's gonna check the HR for tampering or altering? The refurbishing contractor? They don't "fix" anything as far as I can see. And if they can't fix the boxes, why would anyone think that they have the expertise to tell if anyone has ever been in the box?

    Those returned boxes go directly to the refurbishing contractor, as far as I know. Nobody at D* gets to see them.

    Rich
     
  17. Rich

    Rich DBSTalk Club DBSTalk Club

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    All the refurbishing contractor does is repackage them and send them back out again, I think. By the way, if that box you are talking about is a 20-100 or a 21-100, I think I may have had it at one time.

    How could they possibly send out a "refurbished" receiver in the condition that you report? In any refurbishing or rebuilding the last step must always be to test the equipment. They sure don't do that.

    Rich
     
  18. Rich

    Rich DBSTalk Club DBSTalk Club

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    :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:
     
  19. Rich

    Rich DBSTalk Club DBSTalk Club

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    You can't even look at a car that has been in an accident and tell if the screws holding the parts that were damaged were removed or changed. If the repairs were done correctly. Just went thru that and almost traded the SUV that had been damaged in and the people at the dealership couldn't tell the car had been in an accident until I told them.

    Rich
     
  20. jwd45244

    jwd45244 Hall Of Fame

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    Mods, can we close this thread, please? There is nothing more to be said.
     
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