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HD carriage dispute w/ ABC/ESPN/Disney

Discussion in 'DISH™ High Definition Discussion' started by tsmacro, Jun 22, 2010.

  1. kariato

    kariato AllStar

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    Also film aspect ratio on pre 1950 film was not fully wide screen. Wide screen was introduced to combat TV.
     
  2. nmetro

    nmetro Godfather

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    Look like this Disney vs Cable/Satellite is going more viral. Today, Time-Warner ran a full page ad in today's New York Times (National Edition). Effectively mentioing DISH and Cablevision have dropped several Disney Channels and it looks like Time-Warner will be next. So, as other have pointed out; this issue was brought about by Disney, not by Dish.

    I am waiting for the next salvo as college football season starts next week.
     
  3. runner861

    runner861 Icon

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    The same (or very similar) article ran full-page in the Los Angeles Times today as well. It looks like the channels will be dropped. Both Time-Warner and Disney say they are drawing a line in the sand. We will see who blinks. Perhaps Congress ultimately will step in.
     
  4. Davenlr

    Davenlr Geek til I die

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    Would it be legal for all the providers to pull together, and if, say, Disney, tried to rip off DISH, all the other providers would simultaneously drop the same channel, effectively rendering that channel unviewable nationwide?
     
  5. runner861

    runner861 Icon

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    I think that it is a very interesting question. However, I do not have the expertise to answer. I think that dropping the channel before the end of a contract would be a breach of contract. Therefore, it is in Disney's interest to have staggered contract termination dates with the various carriers. Of course, we never know the actual contract terms since it is never published. And, in fact, there is no law against breaching a contract at any time. It is just a civil dispute.
     
  6. Davenlr

    Davenlr Geek til I die

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    I would really hate to see Congress have to step in on something like a TV dispute. If it comes to that, then the government should just save us some money and eliminate the FCC, which is the whole cause for this mess in the first place. They, I believe, and the ones that deregulated the industry allowing program providers to also own programming, screwing up must carry, eliminating out of state subscriptions of network channels, and just about everything else that is causing problems now.
     
  7. Paul Secic

    Paul Secic Hall Of Fame

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    I don't think Congress can step in.. This is a private matter. They have more important issues to deal with. TV isn't one of them.
     
  8. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    It would likely be a violation of any participating rebroadcaster's carriage contracts. They promised to carry ABC/Disney's channels ... failure to carry the channels would be a problem.

    Generally speaking, channels are "pulled" when the contract expires and the rebroadcaster no longer has permission to carry the channel. Often there is a chance to continue carriage while the new contract is negotiated so there is no outage ... but that comes at a risk. Losing carriage is a major motivator for both sides to get a deal done and not keep pushing off the final decision to a later date.
     
  9. GrumpyBear

    GrumpyBear Hall Of Fame

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    If they were under contract it would be illegal. Sounds like Dish held the line on renewal 1st, and the others are following suit, as thier renewals come up.

    I don't see this effecting ABC, ESPN and Disney main channels. Now ABCFM, and those 2 Disney Cartoon stations. Those could drop off the map, at least HD wise. Dish, Cable, Direct are all getting out of the Numbers game now, as they all have lots of HD channels. I think they are all going to balk, over channels with very, very, very, very little HD content, and paying big dollars for it.

    ABC/Disney has created a cash flow problem with lackluster movies, and dumb changes in theme parks, and are trying to recoup money from the SAT and Cable companies. SAT and Cable companies aren't going to make up the difference for that crap, and investors would be up in arms if they did.
    I don't watch the two cartoon channels in question, but watched ABC Family, and when you can count the total of HD hrs, for the week on less than 10 fingers, its not a HD station that should cost much or anything at all.
     
  10. Stewart Vernon

    Stewart Vernon Roving Reporter Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    I think Grumpy brings up an interesting thought...

    At one time everyone was scrambling to have the "most HD channels" and some channels were essentially encouraged to go HD just to say they were HD even with very little actual HD content broadcast.

    Now we're at a point where most channels, and pretty much all of the major ones, are available in HD... so that scramble to add for the sake of adding might be coming to an end.

    Now we can get back to quality over quantity... and when contract time comes, the providers can weigh content over cost... and some "HD" channels might lose out over actual HD ones.

    ESPN/ESPN2 have a big draw... as does local ABC programming.... but clearly the Disney channel is not in demand like it once was... and those additional channels (Disney XD, ESPNews, ESPNU) have less draw, though ESPNU is big during football/basketball season for college sports.

    I think Disney is testing the waters... and finding that more people than just Dish are balking. Ultimately this should be good for everyone (even Disney really) because it will help curb unreasonable price increases by other channels AND will help put some things in proper perspective.

    I doubt anyone would risk losing ESPN/ESPN2 for any length of time... but those other channels? I honestly haven't missed the ones that Dish dropped in HD (SD feeds are still there but I don't watch).
     
  11. Greg Bimson

    Greg Bimson Hall Of Fame

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    There's quite a bit of spin in there...

    Cablevision dropped ABC, and reinstated by comng to terms with Disney a few days later.

    Dish Network dropped the four HD channels because they were never under contract. Dish Network sued instead of negotiating for HD channels back at the beginning of 2008. Therefore the issue was brought about by Dish Network; Disney is simply enforcing their contractual terms. And in the case of carriage of the four HD channels, Disney simply enforced that channels cannot be carried without contracts.
    Say you wanted to buy a can of Pringles and every single retail outlet have met and decided you aren't allowed to buy it.

    If it doesn't sound right, it is called collusion, and highly illegal.
    The FCC didn't cause this...

    "They, I believe, and the ones that:

    deregulated the industry allowing program providers to also own programming,"
    This may have been an FCC rule, but that was encouraged by law to have cablers develop their own programming. How long has Comcast owned CSN Philly? MSG (owned by Cablevision) owned MSG Network? The FTC (Department of Justice) allowed DirecTV to be purchased by NewsCorp with some conditions, while the FCC did not allow Dish Network to buy DirecTV.

    "screwing up must carry,"
    Must-carry is law, passed by Congress, not an FCC-created regulation.

    "eliminating out of state subscriptions of network channels,"
    I don't exactly know what this means.
    That's the problem. No one can renew a contract that never existed. Dish Network is simply tried to have the courts force Disney to provide the HD feeds, and failed miserably.
     
  12. TBoneit

    TBoneit Hall Of Fame

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    And to add a twist to things, WABC channel 7 in NYC had a little piece in their 11PM news broadcast Sunday evening the 29th where they said that things were looking better with the TWC negotiations and that they were hoping to avoid the channels being pulled.
     
  13. GrumpyBear

    GrumpyBear Hall Of Fame

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    Dish didn't want to pay extra for those feeds it felt was included. Dish wanted them to continue yes, but didn't want to pay what Disney/ABC wanted. ABC/Disney wanted money for them won in court, blah blah, blah, long story short, plug pulled on them.
    Dish isn't paying for them, ABC/Disney isn't getting money from them, they will/may get back money for them. ABC/Disney is having contract fee problems for those extra worthless HD stations with several carriers now. Several carriers taking out Large add's and even local updates in the LA New radio stations.
    Sounds like ABC/Disney is finding out that these filler channels with little to no HD content are NOT worth it to the carriers. ABC/Disney is finding out that all the reports about how they have mishandled the Parks and losing money, and some of the bad movies, that are costing them a bundle of Cash on thier bottom line, wont be made up by the carriers, paying for worthless HD channels that they should be lucky that even get carried so they can charge for advertising rates. Lots of money is being lost right now be Disney in the ad rates, as the subrates for those channels will be dropping, and dropping, and dropping.
     
  14. HarveyLA

    HarveyLA Legend

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  15. Greg Bimson

    Greg Bimson Hall Of Fame

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    Dish Network sued Disney in January, 2008, to force Disney to provide Dish Network four HD feeds for free. Dish Network lost in court, "blah blah, blah, long story short, plug pulled on them."
    Really? If the rumor is true and Time Warner is moments away from signing a carriage agreement, can you point to another company other than Dish Network that is having a dispute? We know that Cablevision had a dispute, and that Time Warner has taken their discussions to the public to generate sympathy (sympathy for a cable company?) and is on the verge of signing an agreement, but is there another that has been missed?

    The three companies that generate the most noise about carriage disputes are (in no particular order) are Dish Network, Cablevision and Time Warner. I'm just trying to verify if there is another.
     
  16. Paul Secic

    Paul Secic Hall Of Fame

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    Honestly I don't watch most of the Disney channels at all. What I do watch is ESPN for Baseball and Football. Maybe Disney should go back being a premium package again.
     
  17. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    At the moment and despite the thread that this is being posted in it is hard for me to classify the relationship between DISH and ABC/Disney as a dispute. DISH won't pay for the HD channels, ABC/Disney won't deliver them without payment. The parties are in agreement that the HD channels will not be paid for and will not be provided.

    The named slots for the pulled ABC/Disney feeds were taken down a couple of weeks ago ... I'd be surprised if there is any negotiation going on. (Everything is "in negotiation" even if it isn't.) We probably won't hear anything more on DISH carriage of the ABC/Disney HD feeds until the SD contract ends. Then the question will be if ABC/Disney tries to force carriage by bundling.
     
  18. runner861

    runner861 Icon

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    I will note that KABC channel 7 in LA is running lots of ads stating that channel 7 and ESPN channels and Disney channels may be pulled from Time-Warner Cable. The ads then go on to suggest changing providers to FIOS, DirectTV, AT&T, or OTA. The ads do not suggest changing to Dish. So, while possibly not a full-blown dispute, there does appear to be friction between Disney and Dish.
     
  19. Willh

    Willh Legend

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    well, despite the fact that Dish and Disney are in dispute over the HD feeds of Disney Channel, DisneyXD, ABC Family, and ESPNews, and Dish is also in a dispute with MSG over Fuse, it won't stop me for "Pulling the Trigger" to switch to Dish's HD services.
     
  20. Sep 1, 2010 #340 of 418
    Dave

    Dave Icon

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    But now the disputes have spread to other providers about other channels. AT&T Uverse just pulled Hallmark and Hallmark movies channels over price increases.
     

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