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HD Guru says avoid DirectTV due to burn in

Discussion in 'DIRECTV HD DVR/Receiver Discussion' started by TheKnobber, Aug 9, 2007.

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  1. Skooz

    Skooz Legend

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    Jul 20, 2007
    My Mitsubishi rear projector HD TV has the burn ins where I viewed 4:3 in the correct ratio with my HR10-250. When I noticed them, I immediately changed the format to stretch. Yeah, it distorts the 4:3 channels a bit, but not too bad.

    Luckily, I caught it before the lines became too noticeable.

    This is more of an issue with rear projection sets than other HD units.
     
  2. VeniceDre

    VeniceDre Hall Of Fame

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    I'm quite aware of the "black lip" Earl is referring to also.

    I used to always have the pillar bars grey with my HR10-250... When doing this with the HR20 you still have a small area of black on both sides of the 4:3 image, before the grey pillars.

    I have since turned the pillars black on my HR20s that are connected to my CRT RPTV. I'm not too worried about burn in on those sets cause the contrasts are low.

    However, on my 50 inch plasma I watch all 4:3 in stretch or crop mode. I worry about these thin black bars burning into the image.

    :(
     
  3. mr anderson

    mr anderson Legend

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    Do I have the only TV's in the world that can zoom in on the picture? While the argument is semi founded, it's a ridiculous argument as there are MANY ways to get around this issue.

    There will never be anything anyone can do about movies that were recorded 20 yrs ago in letterbox 4:3 ratio. Guy is full of it and is just causing trouble.
     
  4. RAD

    RAD Well-Known Member

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    Dripping...
    The 'black bar' problem isn't something that's a D* problem alone. Our local FOX station uses dark gray bars when they have 4:3 content and they two black bars between the image and the gray bars, nothing that the user can do to get rid of it unless their ATSC tuner/set allows them to 'stretch' 4:3 ATSC content. So while this is something that D* should try to correct it's not something that's unquiue to D* alone.
     
  5. HD AV

    HD AV Legend

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    I have 4 Letters for you LCoS. Just kidding, DLP and LCoS can also be affected if left on 4:3 for extremely long periods extended over time. Seriously, all OTA digital stations broadcasting 4:3 material matted on the 16:9 format generally leave the side bar area blank which means black. Fortunately my SXRD XBR2 permits Zoom and Wide Zoom when receiving a 720p or 1080i signal. Unfortunately, many newer HD TVs zoom functions only work on NTSC 4:3 signals and do not permit eliminating the black bars from digital 16:9 signals. I have witnessed this on many different brands. These are the TVs that will suffer the most from the 4:3 black bar viewing and D*s black line issue with the gray bars. This also applies to LCD TVs, although, they are not nearly as susceptible as plasma and CRT. But LCD owners beware, if you leave your set on 4:3 aspect for most of your viewing over extended periods of time, you also will notice a difference in brightness in the "bar" areas when watching 16:9. This may take several years, but many who bought new HD sets plan on keeping them for many years to come (unless they are a video enthusiast and/or have money to burn). Most will probably have these TVs for many years and do not expect to have problems caused by the broadcast and/or their viewing habits.
     
  6. Fish Man

    Fish Man Godfather

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    Indeed. His biggest complaint was the displaying of 4x3 content in pillarbox form.

    Every HD cable or satellite box in existance, AFAIK, lets you choose to display 4x3 content in "pillarbox" format and gives, as at least one selection, "black" for the color of the pillar bars.

    This is nothing unique to DirecTV. Indeed, it is universal to all providers.

    Also, as others have mentioned, many digital television channels choose to present 4x3 content in pillarbox format, with black bars, and there's absolutely nothing that can be done about that except to avoid watching such content altogether!

    It seems that "HD Guru" is either extremely ignorant about HD technology (hardly a guru, then!!! :p ) or has an outright malice against DirecTV to be spreading such a distorted view. Payola from a cable company, perhaps? Cable feeling the heat of D10 and D11, maybe? ;)
     
  7. Earl Bonovich

    Earl Bonovich Lifetime Achiever

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    Nov 15, 2005

    No... what you are missing...

    The complaint isn't about the pillar boxes... it is the "black lip" that is around the 4:3... when you are in Grey or Dark Grey mode (it is there too in black, you just can't see it).

    So if you do select to use one of the grey's (which is less prone to burn-in), you will get that small "lip" and that is what the article is about...
     
  8. VeniceDre

    VeniceDre Hall Of Fame

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    Problem is there is a thin black bar on each side of the SD 4:3 image before the grey pillar bars... this unique to the HR20. You don't see it if you select black bars.
     
  9. mtnagel

    mtnagel Hall Of Fame

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    Speak for yourself. I have never watched anything stretched (unless you count TNT's stretch o vision) in the year I have owned my 16:9 tv. I can't stand watching things not in the OAR.
     
  10. Tugboat

    Tugboat Duplicate User (Account Closed)

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    Jul 11, 2007
    I can see that thin black line on my plasmas too. Always wondered why it was there, now I know it's got something to do with Directv's HD transmission. I never saw it before I moved to gray bars, of course, since it blended into black bars. Not sure if it's also true of OTA signals of HD channels that are not currently transmitting HD signal (which is why the large bars show up on HD channels in the first place). I don't get OTA in my location.

    Anyway, I haven't seen this mentioned, but some HDTVs do not allow stretch mode on HD channels (digital signal). In fact, that is the case with my 5-year-old Sony plasma, a 2-inch set. When you try to use the stretch mode, it says "not possible with 720p signal" or something along those lines. It was just the way Sony decided to go with the early plasmas. Other manufacturers allowed it. In fact, my new plasma does allow you to stretch the HD signals, but my Sony, still going strong (even with the bars) does not. I did not try stretching with the H20 remote, but when I let the receiver stretch the picture on my HR20, it looks like crap. So I use the TVs' wide screen modes, when I can, that is.

    All in all, it's not a good thing if you happen to want to use the bars, even though today's plasma sets are really not as prone to burn-in as the older models. Directv should fix it somehow, if it is there fault.
     
  11. HarleyD

    HarleyD Hall Of Fame

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    +1
     
  12. noladaoh

    noladaoh Cool Member

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    Aug 21, 2006
    I have a Pioneer plasma and am aware of burn-in potential. When watching my HD locals through the HR20 I get 4:3 with the black bars. If I watch A D* channel (TBS for example) I get the thin black bars then the wider grey bars. However, I watch all my channels in native and that eliminates the thin black bars on all but the local channels, because they are in HD.

    If this is a problem for you, you should set the HR20 to native and that will eliminate most thin black bars issues.
     
  13. houskamp

    houskamp New Member

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    Sep 14, 2006
    Just for the record I get a blue edge on one of my locals (off ota)
     
  14. say-what

    say-what Active Member

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    Ive seen that fairly often on some of my OTA's, I've also seen the white dashes and dots across the top or bottom (like a data stream) sometimes on the OTA locals.

    Never even noticed the issue noted in the 1st post.
     
  15. MikeW

    MikeW Hall Of Fame

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    May 16, 2002
    I have attached three pictures.

    1) HR10-250 - no "lip"
    2&3) HR20 with "the lip"
     
  16. Tugboat

    Tugboat Duplicate User (Account Closed)

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    Jul 11, 2007
    Those weird data stream elements are the result of underscan/overscan. On my plasma, I have two HD settings, one of which will allow a small amount of overscan thus eliminated those signals (cool feature). But it also has an HD2 setting that will deliver a perfectly formatted 16 x 9 HD picture when needed. The weird artifact-like dashes and dots are most obvious on NBC's HD affiliate where I live, but not so much on ABC and CBS.
     
  17. Fish Man

    Fish Man Godfather

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    Apr 22, 2002
    Are you arguing that only DirecTV equipment has this problem?

    If this lip is due to an error in their software, I'd suspect it to be easily correctable with an update.
     
  18. harsh

    harsh Beware the Attack Basset

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    The problem isn't the black somehow burns itself into the display, but that the rest of the display decays and the usually black area has a slower rate of decay.

    This is primarily a CRT/Plasma issue and it can be mitigated by reducing contrast and brightness (the reason most buy CRT and Plasmas over the other technologies). This is another one of those "be careful what you ask for" issues.
     
  19. harsh

    harsh Beware the Attack Basset

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    Additional scaling, however miniscule, can't be a good thing.
     
  20. Fredfa

    Fredfa AllStar

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    Mar 27, 2003
    Why put much stock in anyone who makes such a blatant error in his first sentence.

    "Around 50 HD channels" beginning next month?

    For months DirecTV has said, on the record, that it would provide 70 channels when the Direct 10 satellite become operational, and that was reiterated by Chase Carey today in the DirecTV quarterly conference call. And he repeated, specifically, that DirecTV would provide the promised 100 channels by year's end.

    If a supposed "HD Guru" can't even get these on-the-record facts straight, why bother listen to whatever else he says?
     
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