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HDCP, HDMI, HD, SD--Problems

Discussion in 'DIRECTV HD DVR/Receiver Discussion' started by hamltnh, May 1, 2012.

  1. May 1, 2012 #1 of 21
    hamltnh

    hamltnh Cool Member

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    So I see that my HR-20 and H25 are both producing the HDCP secure content nag message on some of the premium channels. My situation is that I have both receivers hooked to a powered 4X2 HDMI switch that drive a Panasonic plasma and Mitsubishi projector. I also have the composite/S-Video outputs from both receivers hooked to another 4X2 switch that inputs to a VCR and distrubites SD via COAX throughout the house.

    My question is, why should I be getting the HDCP content nag screen on TV's hooked to the VCR coax output (containing DirecTV SD) if I have the DirecTV receivers set to SD? If I turn on the Panasonic Plasma or Mitsubishi Projector, the HDCP content nag screen immediately goes away on the other SD TV's in the house, regardless of whether the DirecTV receivers are set to HD or SD. In my opionion, the HDCP content nag screen shouldn't appear if the DirecTV receivers are set to SD no matter what is hooked to HDMI--other opionions?
     
  2. May 1, 2012 #2 of 21
    The Merg

    The Merg 1*

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    As long as the receiver detects that there is a cable connected to the HDMI port and there is no successful handshake, you will get that nag message.

    - Merg
     
  3. May 1, 2012 #3 of 21
    hamltnh

    hamltnh Cool Member

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    That seems like a poor implementation on DirecTV's part. I would think it should be conditional on whether the Receiver is outputting HD or SD.
     
  4. May 1, 2012 #4 of 21
    HoTat2

    HoTat2 Hall Of Fame

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    Maybe, but what would be the point? I notice now even viewing the SD versions of the premium channels with HDMI connected requires an active HDCP compatible client on it as well.

    Totally ridiculous I know... :rolleyes:

    Understand your pain though, have an allegedly HDCP compliant 24" LCD TV now connected by component cables due to the HDCP fiasco. Sign ... :nono2:
     
  5. May 1, 2012 #5 of 21
    hamltnh

    hamltnh Cool Member

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    In my opinion, the point is that if the receiver is outputting SD (over both HDMI as well a composite/S-video), then there is no legitimate need for the HDCP content nag screen, since that mode is certainly more restrictive than using component cables with the receiver outputting HD via component which apparently doesn't trigger the HDCP content nag screen (although I haven't tried component in place of HDMI on either of these receivers).

    DirecTV's implementation of the HDCP requirement looks completely bungled to me, but at the very least is unfriendly to those of us using both the HDMI and composite/s-video outputs.
     
  6. May 1, 2012 #6 of 21
    veryoldschool

    veryoldschool Lifetime Achiever Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    While I "feel your pain", the HDCP has been around for a very long time, but hasn't be activated it seems.
    A couple of years back with DirecTV2PC, it has been a problem for something "as lame" as audio of an SD program, where it wouldn't play without a compliant driver.
    Discovery's "Planet Earth", when re-aired on the MPEG-4 SATs, had it where the earlier MPEG-2 [first airing] didn't, as I could test both.

    I guess what I'm trying to say is the source has the HDCP flag, and it's only now being recognized by the receivers, per the request of the content providers.
     
  7. May 1, 2012 #7 of 21
    hamltnh

    hamltnh Cool Member

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    But the content providers want to protect their content from theft/duplication/etc. It's up to DirecTV to properly implement the HDCP flag--I can't see how they can say they've done that. What they've implemented is the "Lazy Person's Approcah"--if the HDMI cable is plugged in to their receiver, any-non HDMI connection (composite, s-video...) receives the HDCP secure content nag--that's crazy if the receiver is outputting SD.

    Why make component an exception? (it probably won't be for long....). Seems to me we're headed down the path of one receiver, one display device which certainly decreases the value of DirecTV service from what it has been in the past.

    This is DirecTV's problem, not the content providers...
     
  8. May 1, 2012 #8 of 21
    Church AV Guy

    Church AV Guy Godfather

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    While it does not make sense to you or I, that's the way it was stipulated in the specifications, and so that is what DirecTV was required to impliment.

    Yup, that pretty much sums it up. If there is an HDMI cable plugged in, then there had better be a proper handshake or the message comes up. Even if the cable is not connected to anything at all, as long as it's plugged in.

    Yes, merely YOUR OPINION (and mine). The content provider's concern is anything digitally connected must be in compliance, which is why component is not required to comply. It's analog. DirecTV is doing what the specification calls for, no more, no less. That it makes little sense is meaningless. That is just the way it is. Don't try to be reasonable, you just have to accept it. It is that way with my BluRay player as well.

    What you CAN do is something rather cheap, and it worked for me. I put an HDMI splitter in line. I am only using one side of the splitter, but since the splitter itself is HDCP compliant, and is always powered on, the box is always connected to a compliant device and I never see the nag screen. It's about $33.50 from monoprice, description here, and it completely solved my problem. I'd bet your switch is HDCP pass-through. This will complete the handshake and satisfy the receiver.
     
  9. May 1, 2012 #9 of 21
    hamltnh

    hamltnh Cool Member

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    Don't know--the HDMI switch I'm using is powered and is termed, "4x2 HDMI Matrix Amplifier Switch Splitter"--however, by itself without the Panasonic or Mits. powered on, it doesn't solve the problem.
     
  10. Church AV Guy

    Church AV Guy Godfather

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    That's because the device you are using only passes along the HDCP handshaking information, but does not supply it. The device I linked to supplies the handshake protocol, and it allows me to use my entertainment center even when the device that my HDMI cable is connected to is powered off. This is your issue as well, is it not? If it workd for me with my DirecTV receivers, it should work for you also. On the box, it says, HDCP compliant.
     
  11. hamltnh

    hamltnh Cool Member

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    Yes--that's my issue-my switch says, "HDMI Version: 1.3 V, compliant with HDCP", so I don't know?
     
  12. RAD

    RAD Well-Known Member

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    Got burned by this yesterday. I have a Slingbox Solo connected to a HR24 via component and to a TV via HDMI. Found out that if the TV is not on then a Sling session gets the HDCP error if the TV is also not turned on, bummer. :(
     
  13. Church AV Guy

    Church AV Guy Godfather

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    Bummer? Bummer! It is WAY *MORE* than just a bummer. Many people are using multiple outputs from these boxes, and unless whatever television that they have plugged into the HDMI port is powered on, the rest of the outputs the error message. Luckliy some newer televisions (or other display devices like projectors) anticipated this and even when powerd off, they negotiate the HDMI handshake.

    This brings up another, mostly unrelated, issue. Before I got the powered splitter, I had to leave my 32 inch HDTV on all the time no matter what output connection I was using. DirecTV has been touting the auto sleep mode as a powere savings feature. This HDMI error, because it will require so many people to leave whole televisions on unnecessarily represents a HUGE step backwords.:mad:
     
  14. hamltnh

    hamltnh Cool Member

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    I hadn't considered the "Green" issue, but you're absolutely correct. I just don't see how their implementation serves anyone's purpose, including the content providers.
     
  15. dpeters11

    dpeters11 Hall Of Fame

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    It can save power, thats all.
     
  16. hamltnh

    hamltnh Cool Member

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    Not if you end up leaving your HDMI connected TV on in order to avoid the HDCP secure content nag message on your other TV's that are connected to the receiver.
     
  17. TomCat

    TomCat Broadcast Engineer

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    I have 3 HR20's and one HR10-250 connected via component through a switcher to one TV, and connected directly via HDMI to another. Changing inputs on the component-connected TV causes a re-handshake on the other TV. Changing inputs on that TV does as well, which briefly mutes the video on the component-connected TV. Two of them connect via composite to a 16:9 SD DVDR, and it gets HD GUI nag screens, so I regularly switch them between 480p and 1080i, but that is now par for the course. All of that seems like what might be expected.

    While I am hip to HDCP, I have never seen a HDCP nag screen, including on any of the premiums. Hope I never do.

    You might consider replacing that HDMI switcher, which appears to be the root of the problem, at least without careful troubleshooting.

    Waiting for DTV to change an implementation is like waiting for traffic to move; you have no control over that situation and are at its mercy, and there isn't much anyone can do except moan about it, which doesn't seem to help. Getting a HDCP-compliant switcher is pro-active; you do have control over that situation. Monoprice.com has great prices on HDMI switchers and a pretty good selection. Worth a peek.
     
  18. hamltnh

    hamltnh Cool Member

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    I don't think the HDMI switch is the point. As long as the HDMI connected display remains on (connected via a switch or not), all is OK regardless of what other outputs are used. Once the HDMI connected display (at least for my Panasonic Plasma and Mitsubishi Projector) is turned off, the other connected dispalys show the HDCP secure content nag message with a black screen. The suggestion of buying another switch or another TV just results in an endless loop of try this or try that. The real answer is one display device per receiver, which seems to be direction that things are going.
     
  19. texasbrit

    texasbrit Well-Known Member

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    The problem is that your TV is not actually "off". The HDMI link is still active, so the DirecTV box sends the HDCP compliance message to the TV and does not get a correct response. The only solution is to disconnect the HDMI cable, or actually power the TV down completely.
    Before you say "why can't the Directv box detect my TV is off", so long as the TV keeps the HDMI link active, the DirecTV box can't tell your TV is on standby. All it knows is that it has an HDMI connected device that won't respond correctly to the HDCP test.
    A foot switrch or a remote-controlled power switch so that you actually can turn the HDMI-connected TV off will solve this problem.
     
  20. hamltnh

    hamltnh Cool Member

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    Maybe-I'm taking a differnt track by devoting 1 receiver to SD distruibtion through-out the house and make sure that the HDMI connection is not used on that receiver. There are probably a number of solutions, but it's pretty clear that between non-compliant HDCP implementations in dispaly devices/switches/etc. that problems will abound for customers--I doubt that DirecTV care much about the problems--they'll probably see increased revenue by customers going the 1 receiver/1 display device route.
     

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