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HELP: Need HD DVR that does not down-convert component outputs to SD

Discussion in 'DIRECTV HD DVR/Receiver Discussion' started by weattv, Jun 27, 2013.

  1. weattv

    weattv Mentor

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    A few years ago some ruling required down-conversion to SD of all component output signals coming from equipment sold in the US after a certain date.

    Did that apply to DTV DVR's? Is DTV refurbishing older models to meet this requirement when they are redistributed? We'd like an HD DVR with full HD output from component.

    The only thing preventing us from getting a 2nd HD DVR and Genie service -- with that new 2-year commitment to DTV -- is that we don't want to be stuck with a DVR that will send a 480p "downrezzed" signal to our component-only HD equipment, especially if our current HR-200 fails (since we use its component outputs for HD).

    Can DTV subscribers still get DVR's, from DTV or from private sellers, that are either old enough -- or have not been refurbished to be downrezzed to SD -- so that its component outputs are still HD? Are either DTV sales or local installers any help with that information?

    Also wondering which are the recommended older or current HD DVR models for use with Genie and an HR-200 with an e-SATA drive?

    Many thanks.
     
  2. inkahauts

    inkahauts Well-Known Member

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    First your missing some numbers in the model of your current unit.

    Second that was for DVD players and hasn't hit in any way dtv units. You can get a genie and hook it up component and get full Hi Definition. The only thing you won't get is 3 or 1080p which you can't get on any component outputs anyway. And genies work great with any other DIRECTV Hi Definition equipment.
     
  3. peds48

    peds48 Genius. DBSTalk Club

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    Component outputs on ALL DirecTV receivers are all HD
     
  4. inkahauts

    inkahauts Well-Known Member

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    First your missing some numbers in the model of your current unit.

    Second that was for DVD players and hasn't hit in any way dtv units. You can get a genie and hook it up component and get full Hi Definition. The only thing you won't get is 3 or 1080p which you can't get on any component outputs anyway. And genies work great with any other DIRECTV Hi Definition equipment.
     
  5. kaminar

    kaminar Mentor

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    Component connectivity provides up to 1080i -- same 1920x1080, just broadcast 1080 vs bluray 1080 -- you cannot tell the difference, and nearly all broadcast tv is 720p anyway.

    Just FYI.

    Good luck!

    -=K=-
     
  6. inkahauts

    inkahauts Well-Known Member

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    Um, huh? He's talking about the fact you can not by a dvd player or blu ray player anymore that outputs hd 1080i. They are all restricted to max output of 540p now. Its stupid, but it is what it is. Directv doesn't have to adhere to that, hopefully ever.

    And I don't know why you think most broadcast is 720p. Most the stuff I watch is 1080i. It really depends on what people view.
     
  7. Mike Bertelson

    Mike Bertelson 6EQUJ5 WOW! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    The down conversion you’re referring to is the so called Analog Sunset for HD output via component on Blu-ray players. It’s part of an industry standard called the Advanced Access Content System. It’s designed to implement digital rights management and copyright protection. Since you can’t control that over component video outputs the standards say it either can’t exist on the player or must only output standard definition.

    http://www.blondertongue.com/UserFiles/file/documents/Tutorial_Analog%20Sunset.pdf

    It’s not a legal ruling or sanctioned by the FCC and therefore isn’t a requirement on satellite or cable providers. However, the MPAA has gotten an FCC waiver that allows Selectable Output Control for movies that are broadcast after the theatrical release but before the home video version is released. If you’re using component you’ll sometimes see a message to the effect that if you want to watch this movie you’ll have to use HDMI...usually from one of premium movie channels or PPV that are broadcasting it before the home video release.

    To answer your question, as it stands right now you won’t have to worry about losing HD over component because the current standard doesn’t apply to satellite or cable providers. The component outputs on all DIRECTV HD receivers output up to 1080i. You might have a problem with the initial release of movies from the premiums or PPV but other than that you can watch all the HD you want over component. :)

    Mike
     
  8. gov

    gov Legend

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    And for those of us that install mirror capabilities on DirecTV installs, we have to purchase the Monoprice (or equivalent) component to composite converter (1080 to 480 down rezing) to make the mirror work since DirecTV updated to the HD GUI.

    If DirecTV did throw the MPAA a bone and down rezed the component outputs, I would have quite the hissy fit.


    :coffee
     
  9. Mike Bertelson

    Mike Bertelson 6EQUJ5 WOW! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    I don't think DIRECTV will do that. The MPAA had to apply for a waiver with FCC just to get the Selectable Output Control because the providers couldn't do it themselves.

    Not to mention the reason for the waiver...the FCC prohibits Selectable Output Control so excecpt for the narrow use outlined in the waiver, it's illegal to do. If a service provider wanted to help out the MPAA, and I doubt that would ever happen, they would be in violation of FCC regs. IOW, not gonna happen. :grin:

    Mike
     
  10. weattv

    weattv Mentor

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    That's good news! Thank you for the helpful replies.

    On a service call last year, the DTV contractor had a selection of DVR's in his truck we could have chosen from. Any recommended model these days -- one that works well with external drives?

    I suppose that even with Genie, our 5-year-old e-SATA drives will work only with our HR20-100 and not with the new drives on the Genie network?
     
  11. Mike Bertelson

    Mike Bertelson 6EQUJ5 WOW! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    They all work with eSATA drives.

    I'm not sure I understand your question. Do you want to put an eSATA on a Genie or another HR? BTW, the DECA network that they all communicate on doesn't know what kind of drive any given DVR is using.

    Mike
     
  12. weattv

    weattv Mentor

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    Thanks again, Mike. I was hoping that perhaps our 5-year-old external drives would no longer be "married" only to our current HR-
    20-100 but would display the same files if connected elsewhere on the Genie system. Still dreading the day when the HR20 fails and all that content goes away, even though the external drive is still good....

    Any DVR model that you'd prefer these days?
     
  13. peds48

    peds48 Genius. DBSTalk Club

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    Thanks again, Mike. I was hoping that perhaps our 5-year-old external drives would no longer be "married" only to our current HR-
    20-100 but would display the same files if connected elsewhere on the Genie system. Still dreading the day when the HR20 fails and all that content goes away, even though the external drive is still good....

    Any DVR model that you'd prefer these days?


    Unfortunately hard drives are married to the DVR that mede the recordings.
     
  14. TomCat

    TomCat Broadcast Engineer

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    ABC, FOX, and MyTV are 720p, pretty much all the rest are 1080i. For cable/DBS, the ESPNs are 720p, pretty much everything else is 1080i. NFL network is 1080p24 to be compatible with their large legacy NFL Films library, but any distributor (such as DBS) that inserts its own commercials probably converts it to 1080i30 to provide compatibility with those local inserts. When they backhaul live games to broadcast stations it arrives as 1080p24, but again they scale it to their local format.

    Actually, I think 720p has run its course. It made sense in the days of 720p TVs, 1440 HD imagers, and poor lenses, but now that many TVs can create interpolated frames, 1080p24 is really the way to go. This sort of implies that 1080i30 has run its course as well.

    The downside of 1080p24 is the lower frame rate, but in a TV that can create those intermediate frames, which is currently nearly any TV that can do 120-960 Hz (ignoring "600 Hz" plasmas), 1080p24 has all of the advantages of 1080p60, a format too large to transmit natively, with none of the disadvantages, plus it has all of the advantages of 720p in terms of efficiency and compression capability.

    Broadcasters could send 40% of the frames (24 fps), and our TVs would create the other 60% locally (the remaining 36 of a total of 60 fps), which means the broadcasters then would have room for better compression and more subchannels. Of course those with older sets would be stuck with 24 fps, but if interpolated frames becomes ubiquitous, that would not matter all that much, as any remaining problems would age out.

    This, along with HEV, could also be part of a solution to increase definition and frame rate for a new generation of improved consumer HD, and I think that would be probably much better and more practical than 4K.
     
  15. HoTat2

    HoTat2 Hall Of Fame

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    TomCat, if broadcasters are really heading toward 1080p@24 Hz and relying on frame interpolation at the viewer's set to compensate for the reduced frame rate, what about the large numbers (if not the great majority) of standard 60 Hz sets in existence which can't do that of course?

    Is everyone expected to have upgraded to 120 Hz and above models by the time broadcasters begin transmitting in 1080p@24 Hz or something? Or just have to live with the reduced frame rate on a 60 Hz set?
     
  16. Laxguy

    Laxguy Honi Soit Qui Mal Y Pense.

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    That's fine! Many such a fit has been thrown here over far, far less important matters. :bink:
     

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