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HMC30 details from CES

Discussion in 'DIRECTV General Discussion' started by Citivas, Jan 8, 2011.

  1. LameLefty

    LameLefty I used to be a rocket scientist

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    Yet nearly all of those older, non-prewired homes have some method of distributing television to multiple locations if the owners actually WATCH television. I would bet that far more of those older homes have existing coax to watch TV, whether it was installed by a Directv or Dish installer, or the local cableco, than have ethernet.

    Thank you for playing our game, Mr. Irrelevant. :rolleyes:
     
  2. matt

    matt New Member

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    My house was built in the 40's. I've run phone/coax/ethernet to every room. What's the big deal?
     
  3. hdtvfan0001

    hdtvfan0001 Well-Known Member

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    Obviously you're not a Dish household... !rolling
     
  4. harsh

    harsh Beware the Attack Basset

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    What percentage of occupied homes do you suppose were built after 1980?

    Are those in older homes mostly going without modern television programming?

    Absent an abundance of either kind of wiring, Cat5 is surely cheaper, easier and becoming more and more indispensable.

    Some of the pundits are suggesting that RF-delivered TV will be a memory in our lifetimes.
     
  5. Apr 1, 2011 #565 of 601
    Laxguy

    Laxguy Honi Soit Qui Mal Y Pense.

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    Winters,...
     
  6. Apr 1, 2011 #566 of 601
    Doug Brott

    Doug Brott Lifetime Achiever DBSTalk Club

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    Well we are in a thread about the HMC30 .. considering it would be DIRECTV technicians installing this I'd venture to guess that Coax is both cheaper and easier. The alternative is 2 guys per install or at a minimum two sets of "stuff" per install if Cat5 were part of the equation.

    Seriously, why are you SO against Ethernet running over Coax? It makes a lot of sense on so many levels - installer knows how to do it, home run NOT required, cable already part of the install. I just don't see how ADDING Cat5 to the equation makes it cheaper when something has to be installed from scratch.
     
  7. Apr 1, 2011 #567 of 601
    harsh

    harsh Beware the Attack Basset

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    If we were talking about retrofitting an existing satellite setup, you're argument may be valid, but my understanding is that this will typically not be the case (at least initially).

    Since were talking about the HR34 where the "clients" are, as I understand it, exclusively TCP/IP driven, there's no need for RF unless you have an burning desire to use DECA (or MoCA). In that case, I'd choose MoCA over DECA simply because you can diplex with MoCA and pretty much everything overlaps DECA.

    If the HR34 network also supports conventional WHDS clients (H2x, HR2x) via SWiM, then a DECA connection might be just the ticket for those devices.

    I'm not generally opposed to TCP/IP over coax as a technology, but I'm much more comfortable with the flexibility and potential of twisted pair cabling. The smaller diameter and absence of bend radius issues don't hurt either. :)
     
  8. Apr 1, 2011 #568 of 601
    hdtvfan0001

    hdtvfan0001 Well-Known Member

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    I suspect all of these points hit the nail on the head.

    What we've been seeing is a specific Dish subscriber posting in a DirecTV thread about a technology Dish simply doesn't have - looking to dispute it on the basis of challenge for the sake of challenge.

    Not one single valid point in contrast to yours has been made.

    I'll take your information and credibility every time in these situations.
     
  9. Apr 1, 2011 #569 of 601
    Laxguy

    Laxguy Honi Soit Qui Mal Y Pense.

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    Winters,...
    1.) It's "your" argument, and his is valid.
    2.) YOU are more comfortable with Cat5. Period.
     
  10. Apr 1, 2011 #570 of 601
    harsh

    harsh Beware the Attack Basset

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    Since you have summarily declared all of my points baseless, I would invite you (or anyone else) to show supportable arguments as to why for at least a couple of the important ones:

    1. RVU is not an industry standard and may not become so.
    2. There exists an alternative to RVU already deployed by DIRECTV (manufacturing and support is already in place).
    3. DECA doesn't make as much sense as twisted pair or MoCA where no other RF signals are necessarily involved.
    4. The HR34 is just another in a series of runs at the concept introduced during the 2005 CES.
     
  11. Apr 1, 2011 #571 of 601
    BattleScott

    BattleScott Hall Of Fame

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    I agree with most of the above. However, for #2: MFH3 (I assume that is what you mean) still requires a thick STB at each location, so it is really not an alternative to RVU. An alternative to DECA/Coax perhaps, but not RVU.
     
  12. Apr 1, 2011 #572 of 601
    hdtvfan0001

    hdtvfan0001 Well-Known Member

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    One person's opinion - yours.

    Many millions of dollars are being spent based on an alternative view.
     
  13. Apr 1, 2011 #573 of 601
    Doug Brott

    Doug Brott Lifetime Achiever DBSTalk Club

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    In most situations .. meaning the part of the equation that matters .. a DIRECTV technician will be doing the installs. The "less frequent situations" are do it yourself, hire Jodean (or other independent installer) or get a friend to do it for you. In those less frequent situations it doesn't really matter which choice is done as it's all ad-hoc anyway.

    When a DIRECTV technician does the install, they are familiar with how to install Coax, they are familiar with DECA, they know what it takes to put everything together. Cat5 would mean ADDING work to the existing situation no matter how you look at it. MoCA would mean ADDING work to the existing situation no matter how you look at it. So I ask again, how is ADDING work going to make things cheaper? There is an economies of scale already there with existing tools. Adding other tools, regardless of how long Ethernet has been around, will only drive up the cost to install.

    Also, most people don't take OTA period. Ask all of the installers here and they'll say the same thing. Don't design a system for the minority. Pushing MoCA in the DIRECTV setup would only serve to make things even more confusing with less success at installation time than is already there.

    If you want to do it yourself and have multiple layers so that it's "perfect" then go for it, but you're talking theory and expense.

    Now, if Ethernet is already installed and available for use, that, too might make some sense, but in a new install situation .. no way. Stick with the tools that are already understood and available.
     
  14. Apr 1, 2011 #574 of 601
    old7

    old7 Godfather

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    To install CAT-5 in Oregon you need to hold a Limited Energy Class A Technician license. Coax installations don't have the same requirements. I don't know about other states, but I wouldn't be surprised if many had similar licensing requirements. (You can install your own CAT-5 in your own house without a license.)

    The apprenticeship lasts 3 or 4 years and requires a minimum of 144 hours per year of related classroom training and a total of 6,000 hours of on-the-job training under a licensed journeyman technician.

    I don't see any of the cable or satellite companies hiring and training apprentices or paying top wage to hire licensed journeyman technicians.
     
  15. Apr 1, 2011 #575 of 601
    Laxguy

    Laxguy Honi Soit Qui Mal Y Pense.

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    Winters,...
    I can't help but think of the poor installer who goes to a house where they insist on Cat5 only, and the LAN is dodgy to begin with. Works great some days, other days, not so much. Hours, and HOURS will be spent trouble shooting. All out of our pockets (customers and shareholders).
     
  16. Apr 1, 2011 #576 of 601
    Laxguy

    Laxguy Honi Soit Qui Mal Y Pense.

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    Winters,...
    Wow! If only drivers- even commercial ones- had such training!

    Also I like the fact that DECA works for whole home even if the LAN goes down.
     
  17. Apr 1, 2011 #577 of 601
    WestDC

    WestDC Well-Known Member

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    If your local LAN goes down in your own home you of all persons should know what the problem is after all you are the network administrator aren't you?
     
  18. Apr 1, 2011 #578 of 601
    Jeremy W

    Jeremy W Hall Of Fame

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    If your home LAN goes down, you're probably not a very good network administrator. :lol:
     
  19. Apr 1, 2011 #579 of 601
    inkahauts

    inkahauts Well-Known Member

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    I think the point is, if a router or switch dies, then it won't affect your tv viewing experience at that moment. If Direct went to an all cat setup, then you wouldn't be able to even see TV on your system, and especially if a configuration issue created a downed problem, where as any network error at all will not take down your tv viewing experience with directv using coax and deca.
     
  20. Apr 1, 2011 #580 of 601
    inkahauts

    inkahauts Well-Known Member

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    RVU is basically an extension of deca, so even if it didn't become an industry standard, it still isn't really costing directv anything in terms of sending them down a path that will make all their hardware unusable.. They still have and will always have set top boxes that could be used as clients as well as RVU capable tv's.

    What alternative? I know you can't mean Deca, since RVU is an extension of deca capabilities.

    What? Deca is a version of MOca.. Its becoming clear to me why you are all against deca... You don't know what it is... You might want to go read up on what moca and deca actually are and how they are related before arguing against one and for the other... :rolleyes:

    Nope, its really not. MRV is now here, no longer a concept, and the HR34 will be another step in the evolution of MRV.. What was shown in 2005 was the a concept, the hr34 is another piece of reality of WHDVR system that now exists...
     

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