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Home network situation/questions

Discussion in 'Tech Talk - Gadgets, Gizmos and Technology' started by lifeislife, Apr 11, 2008.

  1. lifeislife

    lifeislife Legend

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    Jul 23, 2004
    I have an interesting home networking/routing situation and wanted to see if someone has an idea what may be going on.

    Recently I implemented the following in my home network:

    Telephone line -> DSL modem -> Wired-only router
    Wired router's ethernet port1 -> Wireless router's ethernet port1
    Wireless router's ethernet port2 -> loopback to "internet" port on the same wireless router

    IP address of the DSL modem: 192.168.0.1
    IP address of wired router: 192.168.1.1 and DHCP on, starting from 192.168.1.2 for 25 addresses
    IP address of wireless router: 192.168.15.1 and DHCP on, starting from 192.168.15.2 for 25 addresses
    Also, dynamic routing for wireless router is on, going to 192.168.1.1 with 1 hop.

    Both the routers are WRTP54G from linksys (vonage devices). On the first one I have simply disabled the wireless functionality so that I don't end up having two wireless networks in the house.

    So the problems:

    1. First of all, I wanted to put 192.168.1.99 as the IP address of the wireless router. But for some reason I cannot do it. Every time I try to do it it resets back to 192.168.15.1.
    2. 192.168.15.1 would not be too bad but sometimes wireless computers get a 192.168.15.x address and are unable to browse the internet, and worse, I cannot connect to the router configuration pages at 192.168.15.1 or 192.168.1.1. The only way to get out of this jam is to connect the computer with a cable to the wireless router and let it get connected hard-wired.

    Anyone have any suggestions on how I can iron this these kinks in the network?

    BTW, when a hard-wired computer connects even to the wireless router, it gets IP address of 192.168.1.x.
     
  2. deltafowler

    deltafowler Duplicate User (Account Closed)

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    Aug 28, 2007
    My head hurts.
    Why the heck are you apparently daisy-chaining routers?

    Can you do a graphical representation of this layout?
     
  3. deltafowler

    deltafowler Duplicate User (Account Closed)

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    Aug 28, 2007
    Is the modem a strictly modem device or does it have routing and DHCP server functionality?
    On the hardwired computer with the "wrong" IP, what is the gateway address?
     
  4. lifeislife

    lifeislife Legend

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    Jul 23, 2004
    Sorry about that, I don't blame you. I tried drawing up the diagram on Visio but could not depict the key information in a way that can be saved and attached nicely. :-(

    I am daisy-chaining because I want to be able to use the pre-wiring in my home, but since the control panel is deep inside the closet and since my "main" router also serves up Vonage telephone service, I need to keep the "main" router out in some room. If I keep the one Vonage router in the control panel I risk lowering the signal strength of the wireless signal, and of course my telephone service.
     
  5. lifeislife

    lifeislife Legend

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    Jul 23, 2004
    The DSL modem is a Speedstream 4100. I think it does DHCP because the router that connects to it obtains a WAN IP from the DSL modem. Not sure about its routing functionality.

    The hard-wired computer seems to have the "right" IP in that I have never had a hard-wired computer not be able to go to the internet. Its the wireless that seems to be getting 192.168.15.x addresses and therefore being unable to go to the internet or anywhere else.
     
  6. deltafowler

    deltafowler Duplicate User (Account Closed)

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    Aug 28, 2007
    Is this correct?

    [​IMG]

    If it is, remove the loopback and turn off DHCP on the second (wireless router).
    Turn off dynamic routing.
    Increase the DHCP pool on router 1 by whatever amount is needed to allocate all devices connected both wirelessly and cabled.

    Essentially, you only need to use the second router as a wireless AP and switch. You need neither DHCP or Routing from that device. It's passive.
    The Internet port should not be used at all.
     
  7. lifeislife

    lifeislife Legend

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    Jul 23, 2004
    Wow, deltafowler. That was quick, and 100% accurate! Thanks for doing it, and yes, that is absolutely correct depiction.

    I had the setup as you described earlier, but Vonage would need something to come in to the internet port otherwise it would not provide the phone signal. Even though the router is able to "go to the internet", it does not have "incoming internet" and as a result, there is no phone connection. :-(
     
  8. deltafowler

    deltafowler Duplicate User (Account Closed)

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    Aug 28, 2007
    Here's how it should look.
    In order to configure the second router, manually assign it an IP of 192.168.1.199. I added that after the drawing, but that will allow you to log into it via wired or wireless from either router's clients.

    [​IMG]
     
  9. deltafowler

    deltafowler Duplicate User (Account Closed)

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    Aug 28, 2007
    With it this way, would Vonage not still be hitting the Internet port on the first router, albeit by way of the "switch"?

    Sorry, never had my hands on Vonage stuff.

    Perhaps someone else can add to it from here.

    At least I got my head to stop hurting :)
     
  10. lifeislife

    lifeislife Legend

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    Jul 23, 2004
    I guess what I should have mentioned is there is a telephone connection missing from the diagram. I have updated the original diagram by a little bit. Attached here.
     

    Attached Files:

  11. harsh

    harsh Beware the Attack Basset

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    Jun 14, 2003
    Salem, OR
    You can't have two routers sharing the same IP address space. Routers are a one address to many type device (NAT).

    What you need is one router with wireless enabled and a switch. Alternatively, you might find firmware that will convert your perfectly good wireless router into a dumb wireless bridge.

    If your DSL modem is in the wrong room, move it.
     
  12. lifeislife

    lifeislife Legend

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    Jul 23, 2004
    What if I change the subnet of the first router (192.168.1.1) to 255.255.255.128 and then give the second router an IP of 192.168.1.99?

    I would like to use the pre-wiring in my home and so I am trying to put the DSL modem in the control panel box. Don't think I have any other idea of how to "share" the internet connection to for example the directv box which is in the living room. I know there are bridges and everything, but if you have multiple jacks which can get internet connections, why not use those rather than buy a new device? Right ... ?
     
  13. AlbertZeroK

    AlbertZeroK Icon

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    Jan 28, 2006
    actually, lifeislife's diagram with turning the DHCP off and changing the IP of the unit will effectively turn his wireless router into an access point. I've been doing it for years this way. Works fine, lasts long time!

    You are wrong about not having two routers in the same IP subnet, you can. you just can't have both of them with DHCP on. This is a great method used to bridge two different networks. Been there done that too.

    There are all sorts of cool networking tricks I've used including seting up multiple routers to a single lan for multiple public ip access to the network (just watch your gateways.) But lifeislife's most recent diagram will definately work!
     
  14. lifeislife

    lifeislife Legend

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    Jul 23, 2004
    Wait, which diagram? :) There were 2 posted by deltafowler and 1 by me. The one I posted was simply a clarification of deltafowler's diagram with the telephone (Vonage) connection updated.

    So given that the Vonage service will not provide a telephone signal without something available in the internet port of the Wireless router, I cannot directly follow deltafowler's suggestion.

    Now, if I understand correctly you are saying I may be able to do what I want with the connectivity I have, except that I should turn off DHCP and giving the router 192.168.1.99 or some such address. Right?

    But won't turning off DHCP imply the wireless part of the router will not be able to assign IP's to wirelessly connected devices/computers?
     
  15. deltafowler

    deltafowler Duplicate User (Account Closed)

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    Aug 28, 2007
    I did assume the phone(s) were plugged into to the green ports at one router or another.

    Since you say you've previously tried that topology, but the phones didn't work, I further assume that the phone ports somehow function differently from the switch ports on the router.

    Again, I've never seen or touched any Vonnage equipment, so I know nothing about them. Obviously, their phone ports somehow are tied back the WAN side of the router in order to function, rather than on the LAN side?
     
  16. lifeislife

    lifeislife Legend

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    Jul 23, 2004
    Yes, I think the Vonage phone ports expect the WAN port to be active, rather than simply trying to connect to the internet from the router. As a result, everything works perfectly except for my phone :-(
     
  17. deltafowler

    deltafowler Duplicate User (Account Closed)

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    Aug 28, 2007
    Have you tried connecting Ehternet port on Router 1 to the Internet port on router 2, and then running the setup wizard that way?

    Seems to me that the wizard will pickup the presence of Internet signal just as it would if it were coming from the modem as on router 1, and setup accordingly.

    You may have manually assign an IP on router 2, since it will probably try to setup using 192.168.15.1 (default).

    Sorry... I keep editing....

    Try this?

    [​IMG]
     
  18. harsh

    harsh Beware the Attack Basset

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    Jun 14, 2003
    Salem, OR
    The whole point of subnets is to keep different IP ranges on the same basic IP series separate. If you want everything talking, you need to have exactly one DHCP server.

    You simply don't need a second router and trying to convert it to a switch or a bridge is a waste. You can sell or donate the extra router and buy a small switch for under $25.
    We call these devices switches. They extend the number of devices that can connect to each other and to a single Internet gateway. In my network, only the SIP and any wireless traffic goes directly to the router. Everything else is connected to two gigabit switches that connect all the computers and NAS devices.

    If I get a different kind of Internet connection, I can keep or change the router without tearing up my computer LAN.

    You can do what you are trying to do, but it requires a lot of hair pulling and experimenting with firmware and router configurations.
     
  19. bsmith

    bsmith Cool Member

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    Sep 28, 2007

    Here's an idea why not just plug the phone into the phone one port of the first router. You say you have a prewired house. If it's structured cable no sweat, make some patch cables and be done with it. Go to Home Depot or Lowes or wherever and buy a cheap RJ45 crimp tool and ends. cut off one RJ11 end of a standard phone patch cable and put a 45 on there. using pins 4&5 (the blue pair on a regular network cable). I honestly think you're making this more complicated than it needs to be. Ethernet cable runs are set at a theoretical max of 100m, generally speaking an analog device is good to 1000 feet.
    Also if you plug one port of the switch into the WAN port you are creating a switch loop that can cause all kinds of weird things to happen.
     
  20. lifeislife

    lifeislife Legend

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    Jul 23, 2004
    In this setup, do I set the second router's DHCP serving on? How about dynamic routing?
     

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