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Discussion in 'DIRECTV General Discussion' started by PennHORN, Dec 24, 2008.
Ken, all I can say is that you have your facts wrong ..
If you search out the HR2x wish list, or the release notes for any software for the HR2x, you'll find the results of two-way participation.
Well, enjoy the logical reasoning that provides no useful product whatsoever. I have engaged in the most notable fallacy: talking to someone that would rather argue semantics than learn.
I have achieved 100% apathy on this thread and will now depart.
Wanna bet on whether Vista or the HR10 has had more upgrades? Also, the HR10 upgrade was basically forced and in many cases given for little or no charge. It's not a valid comparison...but I'm sure you're pretty well aware of that.
Vista's failure rests not in its own performance but in its inability to be significantly better than Windows XP for the majority of customer's needs. That doesn't make the underlying technology bad...it's actually better in many ways. As I said previously, fortunately unlike DirecTV Microsoft did not stop support of XP and force the upgrade.
If we're going to use overall sales figures as the definitive guide to what's good and what's bad...then cable TV is far, far better than DirecTV because many, many more people choose cable. I wonder if there's any single DMA where DirecTV has more customers than its cable competition?
However, all of this has little to do with the implication that Microsoft had somehow caused DirecTV to shelve the HDPC-20 project.
All I can say...is I think you may have your facts wrong...or perhaps we're both hearing different stories from different sides. In the end though it was DirecTV that cancelled the project.
That site has never made much sense to me. For example, am I to read it that MRV and DLB are ranked behind (I stopped counting) at 44 items? What is the ranking of the product requirements? Based on the rankings, what has been done and how long did it take to do it? For example, when I look at the gray/white section I don't see anything I think would qualify as new features. They are enhancements or improvements to existing features. Now, don't get me wrong, but that's a dramatically different category of development than providing new features.
Then you have things like eSATA (OK, it's a new feature... kind of... read on...). So they turned the port on, but completely don't support it. That's hardly what I would qualify as a successful implementation. It doesn't meet even the most rudimentary of development process definition.
Finally you have things like "make caller ID work reliably". Really? Really, their customer base had to actually provide a requirement like that??!? If DirecTV was really focused on quality wouldn't that be something that is an implied requirement of a piece of functionality to begin with?
I do want to clarify something though. I'm not minimizing the effort that folks in the "community" put into things. To the contrary, I commend it. However, DirecTV shouldn't need that to the degree that they seem to. They should have PM's that are building lists like that WITHOUT the need of the customer base being so frustrated that they feel the need to build and maintain something to that level. My point is I don't want anyone to confuse my criticism of DirecTV as a criticism of their attempts to improve DirecTV's products. My criticism is squarely and exclusively directed at DirecTV.
No. I am judging success by the peak of HR10's as a percentage of all DirecTV receivers versus the current percentage of HR2x's as a percentage of all DirecTV receivers. I am not comparing them to cable at all. For Microsoft I am comparing the percentage of people that upgraded to Vista to the number that upgraded to XP. For both cases it is a matter of looking at the adoption rate.
Actually, you are so I'm bowing out now .. Cheers and Happy Holidays.
Click on "User CP" near the top of the page and then choose 'Edit Signature".
Mr. Prospero, you might wish to send a private message to "Steve" who runs the HR2x Wish List.
I do apologize that the site does not make sense to you, but more importantly, a look at the lower portion of it will reveal items (with a grey background) that have been implemented by DIRECTV at our request. Please let me know if there is any confusion on how to interpret those items and I'll try to help.
I don't think you can find me critical of the efforts people have put forth, rather I have been critical of the seeming need for community testing in lieu of internal product testing and my observation of limited DirecTV adoption and reciprocation of the efforts. In all my posts that I can think of, I have continued to focus exclusively on DirecTV's failures and criticisms. Even where I might have cited something from the wishlist for example, it was to illustrate a deficiency of DirecTV, not the community.
For all the user community efforts, is there someone who operates in an official capacity with DirecTV that participates? Maybe there is, but I can't seem to identify them. By all appearances it's a grass roots effort, and I just don't think billion dollar companies should need that kind of effort for the successful development of their products. I mean my experience with grass roots movements is that they are typically born of a tremendous frustration with the actions and efforts of whatever "power group" they are addressing.
Not the same thing at all. Directv makes claims that it is HD. All UPS is claiming is that you will receive what was shipped from L.L. Bean.
That's a big if. My bet is it won't happen tomorrow or any time soon.
It may show up right away but that doesn't change the fact that some have been waiting for a year or so to see the HD that Directv claims to have on these channels.
I'm not sure what answer you want to get here.
Let me give you two hypothetical statements:
If I told you that there were over a dozen people at DIRECTV who monitored and participated by proxy here at DBSTalk, and that such people chose to operate silently so as not to be overwhelmed by requests... I suspect you'd blame DIRECTV for making an enthusiast community an "official" part of their R&D.
If I told you that DIRECTV policy was not to allow forum participation, I suspect you'd accuse them of ignoring an important voice for improvement.
So, which answer would make you happier?
It's actually Wes. No need for such formalities.
OK, I saw Doug's name on the bottom of the page and figured he ran it. I'll do that. :goodjob:
No worries. I want to try to clarify again, I am not saying that the efforts of the community to drive the improvements are bad. I'm not criticizing anyone who has invested the time, effort and care to do that. My criticism is simply that DirecTV shouldn't need something of this manner. Maybe it's just because I live in an R&D environment, but a lot of the items that I see listed (completed or otherwise) I find myself questioning how in the world DirecTV could not know this internally and have a group of PM's going out and building requirements, defining PRD's, etc. Now, I don't expect DirecTV to necessarily know everything. To build any product you have to have some mechanism to obtain customer feedback, etc. But when I look at how DirecTV seems to operate, they go beyond that in terms of seeming to need the user community to drive things. It should be the opposite. The user community should be providing input and DirecTV should be driving it. I just don't see them doing that. It's more like they are running an open source initiative where the community is building it... but with none of the full disclosure that comes with such a project. I just have better expectations of a company the size of DirecTV.
Heres a good list of what both D* and E* offer and what they don't. Scroll to the bottom to see what they don't have in HD. Thank you James Long.
Overall I'm very happy with D*. They bring me more sports in HD then any other provider. They've been busy adding HD locals + HD PBS. I think (hope) we'll see more national HD in 2009.
I love Direct TV and my HD DVR. 1000X better on both compared to time warner here. My Only complaint about the HD DVR was there seemed to be too much focus on squeezing all of these extra features out of it then making it quick and stable first.
That and Vista is fine. Everyone whined just as much when XP came out
I want the truth, nothing more sinister than that.
Actually, I wouldn't. I think that folks have taken my criticism of DirecTV to mean that I think making an enthusiast community an "official" part of their R&D is a bad thing. Well, remove "official" and actually it's a good thing. A very good thing. Now obviously DirecTV would need to be mindful of the fact that it's an enthusiast community and thus take some things "with a grain of salt", but the bottom line is no, I most certain do NOT think that soliciting feedback from an enthusiast community is a bad thing.
Now, I think it's unfortunate that they have to operate by proxy, but probably not for the reasons you think I do. For me, I think that it's such a community that DirecTV should be willing to have a PM's who's role is largely being that "not silent" interface. In short, they should invest the money to have someone in an official capacity.
No, but I would say that it's another example of my opinion that DirecTV does not treat customer satisfaction as one of the, if not the, most important measurements of their success. It illustrates an incredibly closed minded and... not sure the word I'm looking for... dictatorial? Obtuse? Fiddling while the Titanic sinks? Living in their white tower? Telling the peons they can eat cake? methodology, one which has been proven over and over in company after company to be an incredibly inefficient manner of development.
Neither. Either. Or both. I'm more interested in the truth than personal happiness.
You know what I would really make me happy though? Hearing that, for example, DirecTV is working on adopting an agile development methodology to close the gaps between features and time to market, while improving the overall stability and functionality of their systems. I gotta admit, that would make me pretty happy.
If you are referring to the hardware, it was ready for the testing. We've seen pix at http://www.engadgethd.com/. You are wise enough to know the HDPC-20 hardware is pretty trivial as it is a standard HD receiver with USB outputs and no video out. And the firmware is fairly simple in many ways.
If you are referring to the software...wait, what software? DIRECTV outsourced that to Microsoft. Had the timing worked, it would have been a win-win for both companies.
Yes, DIRECTV cancelled their product. Microsoft doesn't cancel DIRECTV products, that wouldn't make sense.
But any outsource solution can screw up or delay a product to the point it is no longer viable... (Note this is in theory, I am not sure who within DIRECTV pulled the plug nor why.)
(Which actually equally applies to another false notion you have regarding Tivo taking over the entire development process for DIRECTV. DIRECTV has outsourced DVR software several times, none has been as successful as doing their own.)
That's somewhat self-fulfilling on their part though, isn't it? As I recall, their outsourced software (in the case of TIVO) started to fall behind where the rest of the technology was going, it became clear that DirecTV was abandoning it and thus there was no reason for people to continue to desire it (thus improving the measurement of success, namely adoption rate), but rather to go with DirecTV. A huge outside catalyst for this was the implementation of HD. IMO the ability to get ALL the HD channels DirecTV offers did more to drive their internal software than any other single thing. It followed that people wanted HD, and DirecTV had the software to offer it.
I suppose that at some point it became self-fulfilling, but contend that the unsuccessful part came first.
I also point out how long it took Tivo to have their already existing software base ported for the cable companies.