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HR10-250 HD Tivo Review

Discussion in 'DIRECTV HD DVR/Receiver Discussion' started by Chris Blount, May 12, 2004.

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  1. May 18, 2004 #81 of 290
    Lee L

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    Well, the single antenna input in the HR10-250 actually is split once it gets inside the box so they could have just as easily put 2 jacks on the back. There are some pictures around here I think and over at Tivocommunity.com.
     
  2. May 18, 2004 #82 of 290
    jsanders

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    Two jacks? Hmmm. If you do that, you could put one antenna on each input sure. Let's say antenna 'A' has VHF channels on it, and antenna 'B' has UHF channels on it. You tell the Tivo to record two programs at 8pm. Let's say they are both UHF channels. How does it do it? Let's say that you tell the Tivo to record two programs at 8pm, one VHF and one UHF. How do you tell the TiVo to record one show on Tuner 'A' which receives VHF channels, and one show on Tuner 'B' which receives UHF channels?

    What you need for this are two jacks that are connected to the inputs of two multiplexers (switches). The outputs of the multiplexers go to the tuners. Software in the tuner has to control the multiplexer to see which input has the best signal for the program to be tuned to and/or recorded. The two inputs on an antenna can also be put into a combiner which is far less desirable. Either way, there is more involved than just putting on a new antenna 'F' connector on the back panel.
     
  3. May 18, 2004 #83 of 290
    ramy

    ramy Banned User

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    Does the HR10-250 output both HD and SD at the same time?
     
  4. May 18, 2004 #84 of 290
    Chris Blount

    Chris Blount Creator of DBSTalk Staff Member Administrator DBSTalk Gold Club

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    I ramy and welcome to DBSTalk.Com! :welcome_s

    As stated in my review:

    It should be noted that the HR10-250 does NOT have simultaneous outputs from the composite and S-Video jacks while in any of the enhanced or high definition modes. What that means is that only the component and HDMI jacks are active while in 480p, 720p or 1080i.

    So in answer to your question, no.
     
  5. May 18, 2004 #85 of 290
    JoeQ

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    Quite simply. The SW keeps a map of which channels go with which RF input.

    The dual RF input OTA MYHD HDTV card already does this.
    When you first set the card up, during the channel scan, the SW maps which channel goes to which antenna input. It does not care if it is VHF or UHF.

    When you schedule a recording via the program guide, it fills in the Antenna input # when you select the channel.
    When you select a channel to watch, it switches to ANT A or B depending upon the mapping.

    Besides, this card does 1080i upconversion of DVD's:)


    No offense intended but I am new to the TIVO forum since I just got the HD TIVO but I sense that some of you only frequent this forum and so don't think outside the box because this is the only view of the Video technology world you ever see.
    May I suggest that those that fit the description frequent other techie forums like avsforum,dbstalk,satguys,etc.

    A good example is MY confusion over the dual OTA tuner with only one RF input. Several folks did not even consider the idea that anyone would run 2 antennas into a tuner. I kept getting PM's that said 'it splits the signal inside the TIVO"

    Please, my intent is not to offend anyone. It is just that I have seen some really smart folks in here that are able to do things like expand the TIVO but the view of A/V euipment seems kind of narrow.


    Joe
     
  6. May 18, 2004 #86 of 290
    jsanders

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    Hey JoeQ, I think we are in agreement here. I was trying to point out that you need more than just an extra 'F' connector for multiple antenna inputs to work, that there needed to be some hardware, a multiplexer (switch), connected two both inputs, connected to both tuners, with software to control the switch. What some were suggesting would have rendered their dual tuners to be dual half tuners which is equivalent to a single tuner. Without the switch and software, they could record some channels on one tuner, and some channels on another tuner, not very efficient. Yes, thinkng outside of the TiVo box is a good idea.
     
  7. May 20, 2004 #87 of 290
    jubea

    jubea Guest

    First off, thanks so much for this review. It's been tough to find a single source of information on this unit and your review does a great job of that.

    I have a few questions for anyone that's used the HR10-250:

    1. Am I understanding correctly that the unit has the ability to output 1080i no matter what the source is? i.e. it upconverts all source to 1080i? I've got a Loewe Aconda CRT and its a pain to switch inputs from 480i to 1080i and vice versa.

    2. Which tuners are simultaneous (assuming I've got a triple LNB and OTA antenna)?
    a. 2 SD programs at the same time (I'm assuming yes)
    b. 1 SD program and 1 OTA HD program at the same time
    c. 1 SD program and 1 HD program from DirecTV (like HBOHD)
    d. 1 OTA HD program and 1 DirecTV HD program
    e. 2 OTA HD programs
    f. 2 DirecTV HD programs

    3. Do the 30 min. buffers apply to the HD content as well or are they shortened?

    4. Is the difference between SD and HD content as seemless as it sounds? i.e. Do the HD recorded programs show up as normal and are they manipulated just like all the stuff I have on my regular tivo?

    5. Is there a perceptible difference in image quality of recorded vs. live HD content? If so, is there a quality adjustment like there is for standard Tivos today?

    Thanks in advance,
    -Jealous real-time HD consumer
     
  8. May 20, 2004 #88 of 290
    FlyingDiver

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    On the road...
    That's correct.

    All of the above. Any 2 of the four, and it doesn't matter if the satellite tuner is pulling in HD or SD.

    I think probably, but since i never watch live TV (buffered or otherwise), I'm not sure.

    Yes

    Nope. It's recording the original DIGITAL datastream, just like for satellite. No changes at all.

    joe
     
  9. May 20, 2004 #89 of 290
    Chris Blount

    Chris Blount Creator of DBSTalk Staff Member Administrator DBSTalk Gold Club

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    It buffers an entire 30 minutes for HD.
     
  10. May 21, 2004 #90 of 290
    1995hoo

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    Fairfax...
    Here's a thought I had last night on the 30-minute buffer. If you leave the unit set at 1080i all the time, will the 30-minute buffer eat up more of the space on your HR10-250 than it would if you flipped it to 480i (assuming you know it won't be recording any HD for a while)? On the one hand, flipping it back and forth is a pain; on the other hand, come this fall (I don't record much during the summer), it might be important to know.

    Or does it buffer in whatever format the station is broadcasting and then upconvert it to whatever mode you have the output set for? I haven't really had time to look at the instruction book, although I doubt this is in there anyway.
     
  11. May 21, 2004 #91 of 290
    FlyingDiver

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    On the road...
    I would expect it buffers the incoming data stream. That's what it has to do for normal recorded content, and anything else would complicate the system architecture tremendously.

    If you're really concerned about the space used by the buffer, make sure the tuner is set to an SD Sat channel, not an HD channel.

    joe
     
  12. May 21, 2004 #92 of 290
    rms

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    Now after another week, my tivo guide is still just as slow. Also, the network logo's for my recorded shows in my what's playing now list haven't showed up yet. I understood that I am supposed to see them just as I do with my TivoSD. I think I will give it another week, then I will consider my unit a lemon and work towards and exchange.
    Has anyone other then Chris Blount experience the sudden speed-up of the system after a while? Also, do others here see the network logo next to the recorded shows?

    Rony
     
  13. May 21, 2004 #93 of 290
    Chris Blount

    Chris Blount Creator of DBSTalk Staff Member Administrator DBSTalk Gold Club

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    I'm sorry to hear about your problems. Note though that your channel logos may not show up until the next software upgrade. For some reason, some units have them and some don't. I don't think it's your box, just the software.

    Which guide are you using? The "List Guide" or the grid? The grid is extremely slow. The List Guide is faster but while recording HD, it still drags a little bit (although not very much at least on my box). In SD mode, it zips along just like on the SD Tivo.

    During the first 5 days my box was installed, all of the guides dragged no matter what it was doing.
     
  14. May 21, 2004 #94 of 290
    rms

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    I'm using the list guide, the grid takes over 10 seconds to draw itself. The thing that makes me think there is a problem is not even the guide speed itself, but once the guide is up, it takes a full second after I hit the up or down arrow before the guide responds. That may seem like a small number, but when's the last time you had a TV or Tuner that took a second to even receive the message from your remote?
    Has your Grid guide sped up as well? Perhaps the software needs to be updated to solve my problems, it's currently at 3.1.5
    Another strange behaviour is that the OTA antenna tests, shows zero signal on all frequencies. yet I get all the OTA channels perfectly clean and clear and I have been successfully recording all my shows from my OTA feed.
    Has anyone else had any audio problems? I get occasional half second audio drops.

    Rony
     
  15. May 25, 2004 #95 of 290
    openhouse

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    Sorry if i missed it but does it have the, called Id feature ?
    thanks
     
  16. May 25, 2004 #96 of 290
    JoeQ

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    No
     
  17. May 25, 2004 #97 of 290
    hongcho

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    The slow-ness of the guide (list or grid) is a known issue to TiVo (the problem is common to all DirecTiVo). IIRC, the problem lies in the way the indexed guide data is stored on the disk and the way they are accessed.

    I think if they had put more memory or bigger disk cache, it would have been "better", but it also incur additional costs. Another way is to re-structure the indexed guide database (or creating a duplicate for the "guide"), but that involves additional processing to keep things consistent. I think they are thinking about it, but it seems no real solution has come out yet.

    Hong.
     
  18. May 25, 2004 #98 of 290
    jsanders

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    Yea, they just need to make a relational database. Their search feature, which is superb, shows how their guide is sorted. It doesn't take that much processing to maintain a second datbase. That processing comes when the database is downloaded, rather than processing every single time the scroll button is hit in the grid guide. All in all, it is less processing power, but it is additional memory. The memory footprint is probably not that big, not too hard to program either. Anyone with taking a class in data structures, linked lists, arrays, bubble sorts could do it.
     
  19. May 26, 2004 #99 of 290
    JoeQ

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  20. mscalandra

    mscalandra New Member

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    Hi Chris ... Great Review .... My existing Sony rcvr went on me and i had to buy something in the interim because the hughes hd dvr is so hard to find ! I see 2 model numbers advertised and they look the same ! Are there any differences between the HR10-250 and the HD-DVR250? Regards
     
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