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HR20-700 HD channels problems

Discussion in 'DIRECTV HD DVR/Receiver Discussion' started by dinotheo, Jan 13, 2012.

  1. inkahauts

    inkahauts Well-Known Member

    22,541
    1,087
    Nov 13, 2006
    Your system is not for the faint of heart! :D

    Here is a little more specific explanation of how this should work...

    Here is the deal, you can't run ota and deca at the same time, but you can stop deca from being used on certain lines, and run ota instead.

    Here is how you normally hook up your coax when utilizing deca.

    For a coax run to a receiver with deca built into it:
    swim16 > splitter > receiver

    or for a coax run to a receiver without deca built into it:
    swim16 > splitter > deca adapter > receiver

    If you are trying to diplex in coax as well, then your run would need to look like this:
    swim > splitter > band stop filter > diplexer in > diplexer out > receiver

    The band stop filter (bsf) basically blocks all the deca signal from going any further down the line, and it uses frequencies that are the same as of OTA. So by stopping the deca frequency and then diplexing the OTA in after the bsf, you avoid the two conflicting with each other.

    This will work with any unit except the hr34. That would require an additional bsf just before the coax input on the hr34.

    In your setup, I personally would put the hr34 and all hr24's in places that have two coax runs. I would then place any other hr at the locations where you will need to diplex the OTA. This allows you to use less dongles in the long run.

    Just make sure both of your deca clouds (you will have two since you will have two swim 16s) are connected to your home network. (you could hook one of them up by simply plugging in your hr34 via its Ethernet port to the home network, and the other a ick from directv) As long as you aren't doing anything weird with your home router (like assigning vastly subnets and dns servers for different areas of your network), the two deca clouds will be bridged via the home network, and any non deca cloud receiver will also be bridged to all deca cloud receivers via the home network.

    Does this make sense?

    Again, I'd let them come in and hook you up completely supported, just make sure you put the right receivers in the right places, and only running with ota in places with two coax runs for the moment. (personally, I would not let them run two dishes either. I'd make them run one dish, a new one, to a swim16, and them make them cascade a second swim16 off of that, as it is supposed to be, but that's up to you, either way will work, but there really is no need for a second dish. That's just a waste). Then after a week or two with no issues, I would then use the method I just described for diplexing in your ota signal to the one or two locations where you need it and don't have that second run available.

    This allows you to make sure you can get a fully supported system working perfectly, and then when you add ota diplexing back in, you will be able to isolate any issues that are arising due to that if any more issues should pop up.
     
  2. TomCat

    TomCat Broadcast Engineer

    4,153
    100
    Aug 31, 2002
    Your experience was not related to not having terminators; it was only coincidental. Speaking as someone who spent 8 years as a cable TV plant design headend and sweep technician, I can attest to the fact that terminators are not necessary anywhere in a RF distribution system other than at the end of a trunk or feeder line, and that virtually no one uses them on drops or low-level distribution, except on unused ports that are exposed to the weather, and that is not for any electrical reason, that is only as a protective measure.

    Hybrid splitters/power dividers and directional couplers are designed so that all ports are isolated from each other. If they were not, and were affected by everything connected to the system, the system would have to be rebalanced every time a new connection was made or removed, which would be immensely impractical. When a parallel connection is made to or removed from a port on a splitter or coupler, it has zero affect on the other ports. L-band distribution switches have even less of a need for terminators. If a port is not terminated on a splitter, coupler, or switch, that has no bearing on the RF levels, the isolation, or the operation of that device as far as the active ports are concerned.

    A terminated port appears to the device as an infinitely-long cable, so nothing gets reflected. An unterminated port does experience a certain amount of RF reflection, but again, the ports are isolated from each other, so it really does not matter if there is reflection or not, or if the port is terminated or not.
     
  3. veryoldschool

    veryoldschool Lifetime Achiever Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

    42,683
    348
    Dec 9, 2006
    I'm sure there is a system somewhere that this is true, but NOT ON A SWIM!
    You should see the inside of the splitters used, and then "You'd Know Better".

    Isolation is between outputs, but not between input and outputs, since these can be used as combiners, AND the DECA signal needs to pass in both directions, by using Wilkinson [based] power dividers like this one:

    [​IMG]

    Where you're referring to one like this:

    [​IMG]


    ALL UNUSED SPLITTER PORTS SHOULD BE TERMINATED WITH A 75Ω RESISTOR/LOAD
     

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  4. dinotheo

    dinotheo Godfather

    313
    1
    Sep 21, 2006
    Folks,
    I had my install today. It took quite a long time. Kudos to DirecTV for sending out a great installer.
    He is pretty sure that the problem was bad lnb. The cover came off the back of the lnb (exposing a metal back) and he thinks having it heated and then cooled caused the issues. Also, he hooked up his meter right at the lnb and while the signals were decent strength the meter noted that there was a problem with the 99 satellite.

    The installer put up a new dish anyways. He didn't run new coax as he said the coax was good quality. He did cut off the crimped connectors (2 of which didn't have the dielectric flush) and put on new compression connectors. He ran 1 coax line down with a grounding wire so that he can properly ground the dish. Installed all new switches and deca.

    He was super nice. I asked if I could bug him with a request. I asked if he could please peak my 99 and 103 to at least 90 signal strength. (My previous dish was in the mid 80's) He said that I didn't even need to ask. He won't come down from the roof unless they are in the mid 90's. True to his word I have 95+ on all my Ka band transponders!!!!

    I am sure that my issue has been resolved as his meter showed a problem at the lnb with the 99 satellite.

    Thanks for the help.
     
  5. inkahauts

    inkahauts Well-Known Member

    22,541
    1,087
    Nov 13, 2006
    Ok, now what did he do? Did he cascade two swim16s for you? Did he set you up with an ick for one, of the deca clouds and use the hr34 to bridge the other? Just curios now!

    Glad you finally have to worked out! The right installer is always key!
     
  6. dinotheo

    dinotheo Godfather

    313
    1
    Sep 21, 2006
    - He installed a new dish/lnb.
    - Ran a single coax w/ground wire down and used 3 of the existing coax lines (did this so that he could ground the dish)
    - He cascaded the 2nd swm16 off of the 1st swm16's legacy ports (both were new swm switches)
    - He put each swm16 on a deca
    - Setup the new HR34

    After a day of baking in.
    I put the 2 receivers that I wanted to diplex in OTA on their own 8 way splitter. For that 8-way, I installed a BSF between it and the swm port. I plugged those 2 receivers back into my home network and also plugged the HR34 into my home network. Every receiver can see every other receiver.
    Success!!!

    After having DECA. For people like me, where I have lots of receivers and ethernet everywhere, I don't see any benefit to DECA. But, I'll humor DTV and keep DECA on 3 of the 4 8-way splitters.

    Thanks very much for the help!!!
     
  7. inkahauts

    inkahauts Well-Known Member

    22,541
    1,087
    Nov 13, 2006
    Sounds pretty good. I am only hearing one thing that you could do to improve your system a little bit. You should never use a spliter larger than necessary if you can avoid it. All you are doing is loosing signal strength for no reason. Those two receivers you have hooked up to that one 8 way spliter, I'd replace that 8 way with a green label 2 way spliter.

    Excellent on putting in your BSF and diplexing in your OTA.

    I don't know how they wired you up, but if all you have is dvrs, then there is no scenario in which you should have any more than a 4 way spliter no matter how you set up your system.

    By the way, if you have a cck deca on the same swim16 as the hr34 you don't need to plug the hr34 into Ethernet. In fact, I'd avoid that. Not sure how you have it wired, but each swim only need one point of entry, which means the swim16 that has the hr34 should only have either the hr34 plugged into the Ethernet connection, or a cck deca, but not both.

    And I assume the hr34 isn't on a line that has OTA diplexed in either, correct?
     

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