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HR23s (3x) => MVR & DECA Setup => Questions

Discussion in 'DIRECTV HD DVR/Receiver Discussion' started by thekochs, Feb 6, 2010.

  1. Feb 6, 2010 #1 of 18
    thekochs

    thekochs DirecTV 10yr+ Customer

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    OK, I have one HR20-700, one H20-100 and new HR23-700. I'm about to trade-in the HR20 & H20 for two more HR23-700s....making three HR23-700s. I've enabled MRV Beta over my 10/100 network and kinda cool....however, the real desire would be to be able to set recordings to other boxes once you try to set on one box and have exceeded concurrent recording limits. I know this feature is not there yet but I think will hopefully be since the HD only (non DVR) settops allow this in MRV.

    Anyway, my setup is that I have all my settops in single rack down in my Home Theater. The outputs (Component Video) of these settops go into a very highend Matrix switch which drive all TVs and PJs in the house. So, in any room I can switch to any unit in the rack (eg. any HR2x or DVD player, BR Player, etc.) So, I kinda have MVR from a physical sense in that I can select any source from any TV/PJ. However, I want to enable DirecTV's MVR because of unified Playlist, remote maintance and as explained above hopefully they will implement remote recording sessions from one HR2x to another over MVR. Anyway, while my 10/100 works now I wanted to investigate DECA. Ironically since my settops (3 -> HR23s) all are in one rack together running RG6 from one to the other is super simple. I have Slimline dish with four RG6 inputs running to my Zinwell 6x8 multi with 6 RG6 outputs to the HR23s. Each HR23 is hook via RJ45 to a uPNP 10/100 Linksys Switch out DSL. So, to be "supported" I was thinking of implementing DECA. Question is with above setup...how ?...I think simple ?
    1) Do I run RG6 from one HR23 to another, How ?...I mean what connection ?
    2) Sounds like some adapter needed ?...from RJ45 to DECA ?
    3) Some adapter needed to get on 10/100 ?

    Let me know thoughts....I would think with my setup/proximity of HR23s and right near my Linksys switch this would be fairly easy.

    Thx.
     
  2. Feb 6, 2010 #2 of 18
    mobandit

    mobandit Hall Of Fame

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    As far as I know:

    DECA is not yet available...it is still in testing, as far as I know. Additionally, it appears that DECA will only be available with a SWiM installation. It is unclear what D* will do for existing customers...

    DECA will not require additional coax between receivers...your existing coax will be used to carry the network traffic.
     
  3. Feb 6, 2010 #3 of 18
    LameLefty

    LameLefty I used to be a rocket scientist

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    Middle...
    Once it becomes available generally, you will need four DECA adapters - one for each HR23, a fourth to bridge your DECA "cloud" to your ethernet network.

    You will also need an SWM-based system: either an SWiM8 module in place of your existing multiswitch, or a SWiM LNB. Once that is in place, a single RG6 run to each DVR is all that is required. In fact, since your DVRs will all be in a single rack, you could run a single RG6 drop from the SWiM to your rack. From there, a simple 4-way splitter (with the fourth output capped by a 75 ohm terminator) will feed your DVRs, one short jumper to each. The DECAs will connect the coax runs to each DVR with a short ethernet jumper. All satellite traffic and networking traffic between the DVRs will be via the RG6 cables at this point. That fourth DECA will let the "cloud" to connect the internet for On Demand stuff or Media Share from computers in the house.
     
  4. Feb 6, 2010 #4 of 18
    thekochs

    thekochs DirecTV 10yr+ Customer

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    Thanks for the info....I think I follow on most except SWM...I know it is single wire but not really sure the details. Right now I have four RG6 wires coming from my Slimline dish into my upstairs attic running the length of the house and dropping down thru a conduit were water piping is to the basement into a room that has many things including the open back of my Home Theater rack (makes it really nice to access). From there these four lines go into the Zinwell 6x8 and 6 RG6s come out....two per HR23-700...no BBCs of course in line. It sounds like I can either get a new LNB on the dish and only use one line or replace my Zinwell with a module (SWim8) ? I'm only guessing but the SWiM8 would take my four RG6 lines in and have one line come out per HR23 ? Is there a link to this SWim8 module ? Also, which tuner (coax input) would the single RG6s from the SWim* module go to on the HR23s and is there something in the HR23 setups/Menu that tells them they are on SWM ?

    This sounds like alternative to my Slimline 4 RG6s to a SWiM8 ? The SWiM you refer to is the new LNB on the dish ?

    Are you saying there is a adapter that plugs into the Ethernet port ? If so....I'm not visualizing the connection....are you saying these are daisy chained from one EtherNet port with RJ45-to-Coax adapter and cable to the next and the last one in the chain just uses a regular RJ45 to the Linksys Switch/Hub ?
     
  5. Feb 6, 2010 #5 of 18
    LameLefty

    LameLefty I used to be a rocket scientist

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    Middle...
    The easiest thing for your setup would be to replace the WB68 a SWiM8 module. You take the same four lines that run from your dish to your current switch and run them into the SWiM8. The way SWiM technology works, you can have up to eight total tuners connected to that single module (I have 11 tuners active, so I use two SWiM8 modules connected in parallel, fed from the same four lines of my dish, which I split with a set of power-steering 2-way splitters).

    You do NOT need a line per DVR from the SWiM8; rather, in your setup you would run just a single line from the SWiM8 to your equipment rack in place of the six lines you are using now. At the rack, you would use the 4-way splitter I mentioned above, with a line running to each box. The line runs to the Sat-1 input on the back of the DVR (it should be marked to indicate that it's the SWM-compatible input). Each DVR can "talk" to the SWiM module through the that RG6 to the splitter, and from there they can all be fed through that single RG6 run back to the SWiM8.

    Once you connect install the SWiM and reboot each receiver, it will automagically detect that it's connected to an SWiM, no reconfiguration required.
     
  6. Feb 6, 2010 #6 of 18
    bleggett29

    bleggett29 Legend

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    LameLefty--Can I ask a question about DECA that may be beneficial to the OP? If I understood you correctly, each STB is connected to a DECA device via COAX and it's ethernet port. If so, wouldn't it benefit the OP with just keep using his current setup? Why break something that isn't broken---if you know what I mean? He can still upgrade to SWM if wanted(to remove the extra runs), but I think DECA would be overkill since all 3 STB's are very close to each other.
     
  7. Feb 6, 2010 #7 of 18
    bobnielsen

    bobnielsen Éminence grise

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    Bainbridge...
    The only advantage I can see is that if DECA is used, the DVRs would be isolated from any other network traffic, although a gigabit switch connecting them all via ethernet would probably work as well.

    I have seen some mention that Directv might limit MRV to DECA systems, but don't see any logic behind this (nor any official word that this would be the case). I do understand why they may not be able to provide support for other types of networking, but that is really a different issue.
     
  8. Feb 6, 2010 #8 of 18
    thekochs

    thekochs DirecTV 10yr+ Customer

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    got it...thanks !...but why the 1:4 splitter (BTW what type/frequency/part # ?) ? Does the SWiM8 not have mutliple outputs or just the one ?...just seems wierd after all that effort for single wire there is a splitter in the mix.....I would have pictured the SWiM8 more like the Zenwell 6x8 only that the outputs are single wire to the Coax port 1 (SWM) of the HR23.
     
  9. Feb 6, 2010 #9 of 18
    thekochs

    thekochs DirecTV 10yr+ Customer

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    This is a good question....the only reason I was asking about the SWM was the that I thought DECA would only work on a SWM installation. From LameLefty I now understand the Disc-To-SWiM8-To-HR23s setup but I am not clear on how DECA connects ? It sounds like there is an adapter (DECA) that is a RJ45-to-Coax dongle ?.....that hooks to what ? Right now I have the three boxes in the rack with 3 RJ45s out the Ethernet to a Linksys 5-port Switch which connects via a very long RJ45 run to a Linksys UPnP router in my office and out AT&T DSL (PPPoE). I got the SWM hookup/visualization down but I'm struggling with the DECA...I'm only guessing but some type of daisy chain from one HR23 to the other thru the RJ45s or some other unit this hooks to as like a DECA hub ?...then as LameLefty says there is a fourth connection into my Linksys Switch for VOD, MediaShare, etc.
     
  10. 2dogz

    2dogz Godfather

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    Hey, time out.

    MRV is cool. Most everyone likes it. What does MRV require? It requires ethernet connectivity between the DVRs. Period. End of story. Oops, one hitch, it requires a quality ethernet connection.

    So, how do we set up ethernet. A list:

    1. wireless g (too slow for HD MRV)

    2. wireless N (better, works for some, but YMMV)

    3. ethernet over power lines (maybe, never tried it)

    4. DECA - D* new option to connect DVRs over coax

    5. standard ethernet - home runs from DVR to a switch

    Of the above list only DECA (because D* says so) and the standard ethernet are known winners, i.e. they work.

    DECA is designed for D* installers and D* support. Actually a nice solution for folks that know nothing about ethernet and those whose only solution is wireless because they can't pull wire. Great if you have SWM because it uses frequencies on the coax that stay out of the way of the sat signals with SWM.

    The thing with DECA is that multiple device traffic is now on a single wire. It's kind of a throwback to the original ethernet of the early nintes. All devices have to run at half duplex and use collision detection in order to share the wire with its other peers on the wire. Not a problem since it's built into the ethernet spec (every chipset supports it). But it's slower with less potential bandwidth.

    Last on the list is standard ethernet as employed today where each device connects directly into a central switch, used in homes and office building everywhere. This is the best option for speed and reliability. If anything underperforms, it's the switch, so you upgrade the switch.

    So the bottom line of this story is that you've got the best choice to connect your DVRs now and don't get caught up in the new stuff unless you're sure it going to solve some problem.

    Mike
     
  11. thekochs

    thekochs DirecTV 10yr+ Customer

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    Mike, me too....I've been doing MVR for along time.....all my HR2x outputs run thru a matrix switch so in any room/TV/PJ I can select any DVR/STB or even any A/V unit in my remote A/V rack. The DirecTV MVR adds this type feature but additionally 1) combined playlists...2) ability to do maintenance on remote STB lists....3) not now but hopefully remote scheduling when DVR you are on has conflicts (to me the biggest seller).

    I agree except for two reasons.......
    1) It is still unclear if DirecTV will remove or keep (but as unsupported) MVR using non-DECA solutions....ie. your network.
    2) One HD stream is ~40Mbps. Most folks have 100Mbps networks which means one stream and some overhead for internet surfing or perhaps barely a 2nd stream...probably not....thus MRV may be nutured for a 100Mbps network...in other words...too slow to be useful. Not sure DECA's rates but at 3Ghz wire speed there is much more bandwidth for concurancy. So, this item is the one really driving my interest. I'm hoping since my HR23s are all right together along with connection to LinkSys 10/100 Switch that I could easily install the DECA Adapters (whatever they are)...and the DECA-to-RJ45 adapter so I can hook to switch for VOD/MediaShare/etc. "If" needed a SWiM8 module so DECA will work....however, still not clear why SWM is needed but then again I'm not clear on the DECT topology. :confused: ....that's really my point of this thread...to understand how this bolts together.
     
  12. 2dogz

    2dogz Godfather

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    Don't know where you're getting 3GHz wire speed from. DECA is not going to run any faster than the ethernet port it is connected to (10/100).

    If you're worried about switch thruput for multiple sessions, get a 10/100/1000 speed switch which will more than handle what the DVRs can output.
     
  13. bobnielsen

    bobnielsen Éminence grise

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    Bainbridge...
    The DECA adapter is a pass-through of the coax feeding the DVRs. The DECA signal flows along that coax, through the splitter to the other DECA adapters. If there is an additional DECA adapter connected (via its RJ-45 port) to your existing ethernet network, it will connect the DECA cloud to your computers or the internet for Media Share and On Demand (that adapter will require a power inserter, while the others get power from the connected receivers). See the DECA First Look thread for further information.
     
  14. thekochs

    thekochs DirecTV 10yr+ Customer

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    I did not know the HR23s were only 10-100.....bummer. Wire speed for RG6 I think in theory is 3Ghz. However, as you said this really doesn't matter now. So, question.....my HR23s all connect to a Linksys 5-port cheapo workgroup switch which then has one output to a Linksys WRT54G wired/wireless router that is 10-100 too. My HR23s have static IPs set. Can I just replace the switch to GigE switch or do I have to replace the router too ? I'm guessing the packets still go all the way to the router to see the routing table ? If so, maybe I replace the workgroup switch with GigE router ? Does any of this matter if the STB ports are onlu 10-100 ?
     
  15. hdtvfan0001

    hdtvfan0001 Well-Known Member

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    The Ethernet ports on all DirecTV Ethernet-enabled have always been and are still all Ethernet 10/100, which is sufficient to support any network-based capabilities they have in play.

    There is no harm, and only benefit, in having any other network infrastructure be faster than that...for example, load time on a PC for MediaShare content will be faster, despite the fixed bandwidth to consume that content in any HD DVR.

    When I upgraded to WIN7 and a Gigabit network setup, my Mediashare performance improved over the original WIN XP SP3 and 10/100 operating on that PC itself. The HD DVR side was the same, but the "feed of data" to it was faster.
     
  16. bobnielsen

    bobnielsen Éminence grise

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    Bainbridge...
    If the DVRs are all in the same subnet and the netmask is set correctly, the packets between them will be routed correctly via the switch without needing to go back to the router.
     
  17. thekochs

    thekochs DirecTV 10yr+ Customer

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    Oct 7, 2006
    I looked at the DECA First Look link and it answered alot of questions....including I see this is running in the 500Mhz-600Mhz Frequency band....so 5X to 6X in theory faster that 100Mbps Ethernet.

    I have my Static IPs set for 192.168.1.104, 192.168.1.105, 192.168.1.106 which are all below my DHCP start address in the Linksys WRT54G wire/wireless router. The Gateway address is 192.168.1.1. The Subnet Mask is 255.255.255.0 for all. So, I think after all this thread....my summary assumption would be "if" DirecTV does not lock home networks out of use with MVR (other than no tech or CSR support) that since my three HR23s are in a rack right next to each other and hooked into a 5-port 10/100 Workgroup Switch that I might be fine but to help any latency/throughput issues I could just replace that switch with a GigE switch and the HR23 MRV streaming data will go to-and-from the new GigE switch and thus take advantage of the GigE pipe and not have to go back upstream to the 10/100 Router where it would be slowed ? Sounds to me this is much better than me getting SWiM8 module and all the DECA adapters to implement DECA.

    Dumb question here.....the standard RJ45 Cat5 cabling I have now from HR23s to 10/100 switch I can use for the GigE ? Also, any recommendations on a GigE switch that'll work that doesn't cost arm and a leg ?....I have a FRYs near me in Atanta => http://www.linksysbycisco.com/US/en/products/EG005W?lid=LearnMore

    Let me know your thoughts all...thx.
     
  18. hdtvfan0001

    hdtvfan0001 Well-Known Member

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    The MRV beta information annoucement on the DirecTV site itself indicates that folks should hold off investing in any new/upgraded hardware at this time.

    It is anticipated that DirecTV may have some upgrade offers that could impact the network setup of those folks adopting MRV after the beta period is done and it becomes a mainstream (with a fee) service.

    The unit your referenced is a good one, and yes, Fry's has some good stuff in their stores. :D

    I'd hold off for just a bit longer on any new network stuff for now, since you asked for our thoughts. ;) :)
     

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