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HR24 vs HR34 better PQ?

Discussion in 'DIRECTV HD DVR/Receiver Discussion' started by KoRn, Dec 21, 2012.

  1. Laxguy

    Laxguy Honi Soit Qui Mal Y Pense.

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    Winters,...
    Except most of us here aren't arguing.

    Some are trying to ascertain if there's a visible difference between the two.

    I've concluded that with my Sammies, there is not. YMMV.
     
  2. harperhometheater

    harperhometheater Legend

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    It all has to get to RGB in the end, as those are the primary colors. It is the quality of the decoder that matters most in this case, that goes from YPbPr to RGBHV, wherever it happens, in the set top box or TV. RGBHV is actually the "purest" signal, in video terms. YPbPr/YCbCr/YUV are color difference signals and are the first stage of "squeezing" a signal down to a smaller more manageable size for transport, in the encoding process. Then you go to an "S" video signal (Y/C) , then composite and finally to composite riding on a modulated radio frequency (RF).
     
  3. hdtvfan0001

    hdtvfan0001 Well-Known Member

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    Put simply...one would think that since the HR34 has newer components inside...it has the potential to do the better video presentation, however, it also comes does down to what HDTV you use to connect with.
     
  4. harperhometheater

    harperhometheater Legend

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    ......and what cables, and what switchers, and what AV receiver, and what video processor/scalar......
     
  5. hdtvfan0001

    hdtvfan0001 Well-Known Member

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    Agree.
     
  6. harperhometheater

    harperhometheater Legend

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    ....and what refrigerator and other transformers are hooked up in your home, injecting all sorts of noise into your home electric! :D
     
  7. Rockaway1836

    Rockaway1836 Godfather

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    It's funny that you brought this up. We just got an HR34 the other day. Both my wife and I thought the PQ was better than the HR21, that used to be there. Placebo came to mind right away.
     
  8. hdtvfan0001

    hdtvfan0001 Well-Known Member

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    Uh....uh....that's probably where the line needs to be drawn... :D
     
  9. Laxguy

    Laxguy Honi Soit Qui Mal Y Pense.

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    Winters,...
    I hear tin foil being unfurled in the kitchen.....



    :D
     
  10. Drucifer

    Drucifer Well-Known Member

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    NY Hudson...
    It the EoW effect.
     
  11. SomeRandomIdiot

    SomeRandomIdiot Godfather

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    Better go ask Joel Silver for a refresher course.

    Yes, it has to get to RGB, but RGB is 8 bit resolution and YCbCr is 10 bit resolution.

    As for squeezing the signal, all YCbCr does is eliminate the green since it is the dominate color in white which allows much greater effiencency. Simple 6th grade math allows the green to recovered without loss.
     
  12. SomeRandomIdiot

    SomeRandomIdiot Godfather

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    Which is exactly why there is a $2k filter before the AC hits the equipment.

    And the refrigerator and other things are not clipping or squaring the AC Sine Wave as a APC UPS does.
     
  13. spartanstew

    spartanstew Dry as a bone

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    :confused:
     
  14. SomeRandomIdiot

    SomeRandomIdiot Godfather

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    For example, when the first Scientific Atlanta HD DVRs came out in mass around 2004, the DVI/HDMI digitial circuit was not that good. A better picture could be had connecting the unit via component. In fact, many early Digital circuits could not pass a pristine picture which the analog connections could.

    As 2nd, 3rd, 4th generation chips/circuits were built, they got better and better and better. The HR34 and HR24 are the newest publicly available technology from D* so have the possibility and probability of having better circuits/chips than older units - although much of the technology was to shrink the size of the chips.

    However, it all comes down to the HDTV. There are still plenty of HDTV's being sold today that cannot display 1920x1080p or 24fps. In most cases, a $1000 HDTV will probably not look as good as a $5,000 HDTV - and thats why he states in the end it comes down to what the HDTV can display.

    You can put the best driver in the world in a Prius and its not going to outperform a ferrari.
     
  15. Stuart Sweet

    Stuart Sweet The Shadow Knows!

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    That depends on your definition of perform
     
  16. spartanstew

    spartanstew Dry as a bone

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    Thanks, but I understood the concept. Just wondered why he posted it twice.
     
  17. hdtvfan0001

    hdtvfan0001 Well-Known Member

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    For those who didn't "get it" the first time... :rolleyes:
     
  18. harperhometheater

    harperhometheater Legend

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    Sounds like someone else needs the refresher:

    http://www.hdmi.org/learningcenter/faq.aspx

    HDMI 1.3:

    Deep Color: HDMI 1.3 supports 10-bit, 12-bit and 16-bit (RGB or YCbCr) color depths, up from the 8-bit depths in previous versions of the HDMI specification, for stunning rendering of over one billion colors in unprecedented detail.

    I think I know what happens from RGBHV to YCbCr and how it derives its color difference signals. I also know that it uses simple math to recreate the original RGBHV signal, but what I said stands as you actually stated, it gets rid of information from the original, making it smaller for transport/storage, etc., hence why I said a TRUE statement that it "squeezes" the signal (trying to put it in layman's terms). It is also more than just "eliminating the green" as you say.

    I knew all his WELL before I ever became ISF certified. That was just a label I needed and wanted for business purposes. I have been in radio and TV broadcasting since 1987, including running a television transmitter site for an NBC Affiliate, broadcasting radio and TV from the back of an EC-130 aircraft in peacetime and war zones all over the world as well as being the Commandant of the schoolhouse that taught all this information to new personnel. As an aside, I also assisted with the engineer in development of the award winning TAW Rock+ Video Scalar/Processor some 10+ years ago. I've worked with the likes of Kevin Miller (co-founder of ISF), Greg Loewen (Lead THX Video Trainer), Alan Gouger (AVS Forum owner), Phil Tuttobene (TAW, Inc. founder/engineer) and MANY other industry experts from NAB, CEDIA, US Government, Etc.

    Get a grip dude, you're not the only so called "expert" here! No reason for the derisive tone and attempted put downs! :/
     
  19. D-Nice

    D-Nice New Member

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    The above color bit depth information is wrong. RGB is fully capable of being 10bit. YPbPr does not have a minimum bit depth of 10bit... and 4:2:2 is only form of YPbPr. It is not by default 10 bit.

    Discussing anything above 8bit is irrelevant when discussing broadcast TV (cable and sat), DVD, Bluray and streaming content as they all are mastered/encoded/transmitted in 8bit.

    A RGB output should be no different than a YPbPr output all things equal. There are differences between the HR24-500 and other HR24 models, H24/25 and H34... visually and measured. This is not due to RGB vs YPbPr. Its due to chipset differences. The HR24-500 actually measures better than all other DirecTV boxes per calibration software/equipment.
     
  20. P Smith

    P Smith Mr. FixAnything

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    Any real supporting source ? URL ?
     

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