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HR34 and 4TB External Drive

Discussion in 'DIRECTV HD DVR/Receiver Discussion' started by docderwood, Sep 28, 2012.

  1. Nov 15, 2012 #21 of 132
    Rich

    Rich DBSTalk Club DBSTalk Club

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    What HDDs are you using? If they are WD drives you might want to check the WD specs pages. WD doesn't recommend the Green Caviar drives for RAID enclosures, but they do recommend the Red Drives for RAID setups. Just found this out yesterday.

    Rich
     
  2. Nov 15, 2012 #22 of 132
    RunnerFL

    RunnerFL Well-Known Member

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    I'm using Seagate drives in most of my stuff. I do have one RAID enclosure with WD drives but they are black label enterprise class drives.
     
  3. Nov 15, 2012 #23 of 132
    Rickt1962

    Rickt1962 Legend

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    Hmm well that sucks ! I know the green drives are cheap 2tb's just over a 100 bucks !
     
  4. Nov 15, 2012 #24 of 132
    P Smith

    P Smith Mr. FixAnything

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    Not that far from specifically mentioned "black" type, but just some changes in FW made them "enterprise" class with triple tag price.
     
  5. Nov 15, 2012 #25 of 132
    Rich

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    Didn't read the specs for the Black drives. That WD site is nasty to navigate.

    Rich
     
  6. Nov 15, 2012 #26 of 132
    Rich

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    ~ the same price as the Red Caviars I saw on Amazon yesterday.

    Rich
     
  7. Nov 15, 2012 #27 of 132
    Rich

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    Do you know if a SATA III drive will work on an HR?

    Rich
     
  8. Nov 15, 2012 #28 of 132
    Jacob Braun

    Jacob Braun King of Awesome

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    SATA III is backwards compatible, so yes, they will!
     
  9. Nov 15, 2012 #29 of 132
    Rich

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    Thanx, now if some kind soul will buy one and try it...

    Rich
     
  10. Nov 15, 2012 #30 of 132
    RunnerFL

    RunnerFL Well-Known Member

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    Yeah it is... They're the same drives we use at work in various RAID configurations. The same ones DELL uses in new servers. I sure hope they are ok for RAID setups. :lol:
     
  11. Nov 15, 2012 #31 of 132
    Beckzilla

    Beckzilla Legend

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    I could not agree more!!
     
  12. Nov 16, 2012 #32 of 132
    Rich

    Rich DBSTalk Club DBSTalk Club

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    I was surprised to see that caveat about the Green Caviars and their incompatibility with RAID setups. That could have been there for years, I just happened to spot it.

    Rich
     
  13. Nov 16, 2012 #33 of 132
    RunnerFL

    RunnerFL Well-Known Member

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    I'm not sure I understand it myself really.
     
  14. Nov 16, 2012 #34 of 132
    Rich

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    I have a feeling D* is gonna have to do something about swapping HDDs within an account because of the HR34. For "power users", the five tuners and 1TB drive just about demand that an external drive be put on the 34s. If the 34 fails, and they all do eventually, all recordings are lost, no matter how big an external drive you put on them, the way it stands now.

    BTW, I have absolutely no "inside" info on this, it's just speculation. A lot of us would like to see this happen, but we've been fighting for it for years and nobody at D* seems to care.

    Rich
     
  15. Nov 16, 2012 #35 of 132
    Rich

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    I should have bookmarked that page, I don't know if I could find it again.

    Rich
     
  16. Nov 16, 2012 #36 of 132
    RunnerFL

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    I tried searching "Green RAID" on their site and it gave me a link to a document. I clicked on that link and it just took me back to their home page. I copy/pasted the link and it just took me back to their home page. Looks like WD doesn't want anyone reading their docs.
     
  17. Nov 16, 2012 #37 of 132
    Rich

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    I'll try to find it. I searched for Red Cavs and found it in little tiny letters. Easy to miss.

    Rich
     
  18. Nov 19, 2012 #38 of 132
    unixguru

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    It has to do with the error recovery procedure within the drive. Although it doesn't happen often these days, a given read or write may fail the first time (or first few times) but work if retried. The difference between enterprise and desktop drives is how aggressive/persistent the firmware is. That is, how many times will it retry and/or how long it will retry.

    "Enterprise"/"RAID compatible" drives limit how long they will retry internally. This is so that duration is less than the time the RAID controller uses to decide the drive is bad.

    "Desktop" drives either don't limit at all or have a limit that is too long. When used in a RAID configuration the drive might be considered defective when it is doing internal retries.

    A failed sector on a drive does not necessarily mean the drive is a goner. Sector failures in a RAID configuration can easily be overcome as if nothing has happened. But to do that the RAID controller must know that it's a bad sector and not a bad drive (as evidenced by the drive not responding at all because it's hammering away on retries).

    Bottom line is don't use desktop drives in RAID.

    It isn't just a different setting in firmware that makes a desktop drive a lot cheaper. The warranty is a lot less. The quality is less at some manufacturing locations. For example, I understand that the latest Seagate desktop drives are manufactured in China and have a much higher failure rate as a result.
     
  19. Nov 20, 2012 #39 of 132
    franklin_planner

    franklin_planner Cool Member

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    Forgive me for "dumbing this down" but can someone explain the difference between the drive the OP talked about and the WD4001FAEX? Will either/both work in a BlackX enclosure? The WD4001FAEX is less expensive. Thanks.
     
  20. Nov 20, 2012 #40 of 132
    unixguru

    unixguru Godfather

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    None of the BlacX have any RAID capability so it doesn't matter if the drive is RAID-friendly or not.

    At a minimum, any RAID requires at least 2 drives. And it must have a RAID controller in the enclosure. This makes the multiple drives look like a single drive to the DVR. The BlacX Duet is dual drive but does not contain a RAID controller so even though it's only one cable (requiring the host to have a SATA port-multiplier-capable controller) the host software sees it as 2 distinct drives - which we know is useless for a DVR.

    For completeness, the WD4000FYYZ is an enterprise drive and is RAID-friendly. The WD4001FAEX is a desktop drive and is not designed for RAID.
     

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