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HRxx & DNLA Compliant; What Does It Really Mean ?

Discussion in 'DIRECTV HD DVR/Receiver Discussion' started by thekochs, Jan 13, 2011.

  1. thekochs

    thekochs DirecTV 10yr+ Customer

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    Oct 7, 2006
    OK, long time user and A/V nut. I have three HR23-700s and PCs that occasionally I MediaShare from a booted PC....assuming standard PICs, MP3s or true MPEG2 clips.....all within lets say the DirectV codec ability. I've looked at the transcoding softwares and that are no all the threads and this takes setup work, constant maintanence, and just is not clean....I experienced this nightmare when I developed my own high-end HTPC....in the end not worth the maintenance work on my part. Anyway, I've been struggling for a year+ deciding on what to buy as my medie respository....I HATE having a PC booted just to access my database of pics/music/videos. Thus, I've contemplated NASes, then also Network Media Player with HDD, etc. All of these have trade-offs but I think at the end of the day I probably will go some NAS route that I have a DLNA device "pull" from. The issue is codecs, etc I know...but my assumption is this DLNA device....call it PS3, new highend TV, Network MediaPlayer has those codecs, processor and can ID my NAS and stream/pull.

    So, my question on this thread is not the above overview but more the question is that I see DirecTV DVRS are DNLA compliant ? OK, what does that really mean with their very limited codecs ? I ask because while I may still buy a NAS to have as main network database of pics/music/video I wonder if DirecTV DVRs could at some point be true DLNA with codecs to run more than they are ?

    Any insights on this appreciated.
     
  2. BattleZone

    BattleZone Hall Of Fame

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    Bad assumption. NAS devices generally won't have the CPU horsepower to transcode anything, and I don't know of any "integrated" playback devices that support a large number of codecs. The PS3 is pretty good, but still LOTS of videos that won't work, because there are a ton of different CODECs out there.

    Nothing beats a PC, but some of the standalone playback devices, such as Popcorn Hour, come close, with lots of codec support.

    DirecTV receivers are NOT fully DNLA compliant at all, and were never advertised to be. More specifically, they were Viiv-complaint. Viiv was an Intel spec that was based on DNLA but had a number of changes/extensions that only worked on a Viiv server. The problem is that Intel dropped their semi-proprietary Viiv software (and support) when it became clear that true DNLA was being widely adopted as the de facto standard. This happened not long after the HR20 was released, but DirecTV was already committed.

    DirecTV's receivers have extremely limited codec support and don't support DNLA-standard "trickplay" controls (FF/REW), for example. And don't expect that to change; if it was going to, it would have done so long ago.
     
  3. thekochs

    thekochs DirecTV 10yr+ Customer

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    Oct 7, 2006
    My A/V setup is all my DVRs and other A/V equipment is down in Home Theater running thru a component matrix switch (see my signature for link) that drives all TVs in the house. This was pre-MRV from DirecTV and the nice thing was/is you can select any component in the HT rack from any room in the house and bring its "source" to that TV. Thus, I was thinking to put MediaPlayer in this rack as another input to that switch and just use it's newtork connection to update firmware/codecs and also download to their typical HDD my media content. I've been looking at alot of MediaPlayers and NetWork Mediaplayers. Some of the vendors I found....
    http://store.duneplayer.com/shop/
    http://www.popcornhour.com/onlinestore/
    http://www.qnap.com/pro_detail_feature.asp?p_id=171
    http://www.wdc.com/en/products/homeentertainment/mediaplayers/

    The other avenue is go "power NAS" and drive a DirecTV DVR but not sure that works since as you pointed out the need for transcoding (think below has enough power) but I think these NetGear run Twonky software server....been along time since I looked. Althought don't have PS3 this could be another option as a target device to stream to....or perhaps one of the newer TVs that may allow for DLNA streaming ? Anyway, here is NeatGear READYNAS that do have enough power....probably best example I've found.....
    http://www.netgear.com/home/products/storage/high-performance/default.aspx
    NETGEAR High Performance Storage devices are the ideal desktop storage solution for advanced home users and media enthusiasts. These high performance storage products support multiple HD media streams to Xbox 360, PS3 and more. You can also convert your videos on the fly and watch them on your phone or shift your media to any remote DLNA compatible device.

    Problem with all these is money and how well they keep up with Codecs. I don't mind spending some $$ but want an architecture that gives me legs going forward.

    Let me know your thoughts ?
     
  4. jdspencer

    jdspencer Hall Of Fame

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    Nov 7, 2003
    I have the 1TB WD NAS Whitebook which has Twonky builtin. However, as mentioned above it doesn't do a very good job with transcoding (if any) videos. I had to do it manually before putting the videos on the NAS. But, I find that Media Share on the HRs is downright awful. So, I then opted for the WD Live TV HD Plus server. This little unit takes just about every video format I can throw at it. It has an HDMI output for the TV as well as component.

    The slight nitpick I now have with it is that it shows the DirecTV DVRs in the list for Media Servers as DirecTV2PC. But, obviously I can't view anything from the DVRs. Anyone know of a way prevent the DVRs from showing on the WD Live TV unit?
     
  5. thekochs

    thekochs DirecTV 10yr+ Customer

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    I'm kinda coming to that conclusion that.........
    1) a NAS is expensive and while good it might be best to buy a NAS as just storage device....as you said they probably aren't met for streaming so kinda do a crappy job....plus worry about long term support.
    2) Really need to buy the unit that is focused on this market...Network MediaPlayer. WD one looks good....this new QNAP is really nice....also the DUNE is nice in that it combos BR drive too.
    QNAP => The UI seems awesome and does coverart, etc....wow.
    http://www.qnap.com/pro_detail_feature.asp?p_id=171
    DUNE => Future (free f/w upgrade): Netflix support (for the USA market)
    http://store.duneplayer.com/shop/item.aspx?itemid=7
     
  6. jdspencer

    jdspencer Hall Of Fame

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    Nov 7, 2003
    When I bought that NAS I didn't know it had Twonky installed. When I discovered that it was and it could be used with Media Share I thought this would be great. Little did I know that it was more trouble than what it is worth. The NAS is primarily a sorage drive for my network. But now with the WD Live TV I can download shows and play the shows with no intermediate transcoding. I can also rip DVDs and play the VOBs (no DVD navigation however.) This may be coming with a future update.

    Did I mention that this unit can also do YouTube, Netflix, and a bunch of other apps?

    Also, I had a USB based external drive that I connected to the WD Live box and turned it into a network share.
     
  7. texasdoc

    texasdoc New Member

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    I have the WD TV Hub too. Although it will transcode many files and output them to the TV connections - it still doesn't transcode them correctly to the HR20. Only the files that are MPG will play on the HR20. Any other file will not play - I get an invalid media type.

    This is the exact same problem I had with TVersity running on my windows Home Server. I don't know how DLNA works. It seems that the HR20 must not actually be able to play a file it states it can. Otherwise TVersity (on WHS) or Twonky (WD Hub) would transcode it into a format it can play.

    Right now I am trying to figure out how to convert all my files to a MPG format that the HR20 will play. (Handbrake has abandoned the MPG format in favor of the MKV or MP4 format).
     
  8. thekochs

    thekochs DirecTV 10yr+ Customer

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    Here is MPEG Streamclip....free and very good: http://www.squared5.com/
    Here is a How-To ThreadI did awhile back on the subject: http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=114861

    I applaud you for doing this and have considered myself but I warn you this is a losing battle over time. It is clear that since DirecTV cannot make money off MediaShare, as opposed to something like MRV, they are spending zero time on it and as you said the only codec they support is MP2/TS & LPCM....pitiful.

    So, I'm going down your guys roads and getting a NMP that drives my TVs directly. For you perhaps flipping to a different input on a single TV...HRxx vs WD...for me I plan to hook this up to my component matrix switch (see my signature) thus any TV inthe house can access it.
     
  9. bobnielsen

    bobnielsen Éminence grise

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    Bainbridge...
    One problem with MPEG Streamclip is that the "convert to TS" option isn't available for all formats. There are several other video conversion utilities for Windows (most of which are not free, however).
     
  10. thekochs

    thekochs DirecTV 10yr+ Customer

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    Agreed....but hopefully works for texasdoc...........depends as you say on what he is converting from.....

    I bought this awhile back and still use.......there are others for sure.
    http://www.riverpast.com/en/prod/videocleaner/pro/
     
  11. davel

    davel Godfather

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    I actually built a Viiv server because I wanted trick play for encoded DVD's so I would have my whole library on all TV's. If you search my username and viiv you will find my results.

    Net, viiv works with very specific limitations (Vista 32 bit ultimate, no domain) it will do fast forward and rewind, but does not handle Dolby Digital Audio.

    So you either get no FF/RW and sound or FF/RW with no sound.

    Yet another half azz product that directv never finished.
     
  12. thekochs

    thekochs DirecTV 10yr+ Customer

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    Oct 7, 2006
    I know...I also built a HUGE HTPC with 8TB storage, integrated music, video/DVD, coverarts, weather, etc....used XLobby frontend. Finally realized year+ work was great to learn but the updates for gfx card, software, etc. was a PITA....sold the sucker. In those days there was no ViiV and no NetWork Media Players. I want a Consumer Device I do not have to maintain....just load my content and go..perhaps a firmware upgrade from time-time...I also don't want a power-hog PC booted all the time either. Thus these NMPs seem ideal....especially with the number of codecs and constant changes to them. I've read like 20+ NMP user manuals from Popcorn to Dune to NetGear to Patriot to QNAP, etc....Reviews and Forums as well. To me it comes down to PS3 if you want a game console + NMP.....or the WD TV Live...on Amazon $99. I've heard Apple TV is good but not a MAC person. Anyway, the WD TV Live needs external HDD but that is good because you can grow over time. I'm going to do more reading but I'm convinced being in the PC-A/V industry two decades to get a product that has some legs in upgradability and also company that will stick around. I think the WD TV Live gives you all this and you are basically out $99 of investment....versus other NMP's are $350+$450.....ouch.
     
  13. ronton3

    ronton3 AllStar

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    The WDTV Live Hub is the newer model with a 1TB built in drive. I am considering it. Still 199.99 on Amazon. ron
     
  14. bigmac94

    bigmac94 AllStar

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    Sneads Ferry NC
    Don`t know if this will be of help to you,however simply by accident I discovered my LG BX582 Bluray Player (thats Also 3D ready) and of course hooked up to my N home network with DECA,I mention this because I have discovered that the bluray player will play any & all of the content on my Computer(Pictures,Music) although have not tried Videos. However it does see the Content saved on the DVRs.
     
  15. Stuart Sweet

    Stuart Sweet The Shadow Knows!

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    Yeah, I have to be honest with you. If you're serious about a full-featured home media server you probably want to use a different device. If you want to play some videos and look at some pictures from your home PC, DIRECTV's implementation will probably work great for you.
     
  16. thekochs

    thekochs DirecTV 10yr+ Customer

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    Oct 7, 2006
    Stuart, sorry......no offense but DirecTV's implementation is terrible.....so limited on codecs it forces users to re-format their vids....not practical, user interface from the DVR is terrible....and SLOW, all the transcoding software out there has alot of hickups and since there is issues with LPCM plugins, plus not to mention you have to have a PC booted all the time....very wasteful. For $99 plus attaching HDD how can you lose ?.....just for the codec support it is worth it. I truly wish DirecTV would do something with MediaShare but it is clear for "years" now....not months.....this is not a priority...which guess I can't blame them. I guess I can agree with you that if someone has their W7 notebook PC booted and they want to quickly show a few pics or properly formated vid (however, I think highly unlikely at M2TS/LPCM that they would) that perhaps this is sufficient....but anything past this use of the HRxx MediaShare for the average user or user with decent media library is prohibitive.....wish that was not so. :(

    What other Media Servers have you checked into ?...any suggestions ? I've looked/read about 20 of the top guys (A.C Ryan, PlayOn HD, QNAP, NetGear, Akomi.....also there are Media Streaming NASes out there) and all seems OK but literally $350+.....if you are going to spend that type $$$ then I would recommend PS3.
     
  17. thekochs

    thekochs DirecTV 10yr+ Customer

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    Oct 7, 2006
    I was thinking this as well but to be honest with videos the 1TB may look large now but down the road perhaps not....and who knows if the firmware will allow for 2TB or 4TB. Thus, think a $99 investment in the WD LIVE TV PLUS is better since you can handle up to (2) USB HDD off it.....thus, no issue in upgrading down the road either. Only thing which I have not researched is the fact the hub can run multi-streams.....I don't plan/need this....

    Just my two cents.....let me know your thoughts....
     
  18. machavez00

    machavez00 Hall Of Fame

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    Phoenix,...
    I've been using my PS3/EyeConnect combo to stream from my iMac. It will get even better once Qwest fires up their VDSL2 service and they send me the q1000 modem. It has gigabit ethernet(and .11N), which both the PS3 and iMac have.
     
  19. Stuart Sweet

    Stuart Sweet The Shadow Knows!

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    No offense taken at all. I think we actually agree on the basics, that DIRECTV's implementation is limited... all I'm saying is it works for some people. If you're not one of them, you're right that there are a TON of better options.
     
  20. CCarncross

    CCarncross Hall Of Fame

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    Jackson
    I agree with most of what is said here....My feeling is that since they probably arent going to be able to offer all the features of some of the more robust media servers out there, lets quit development on it now, and get these things back to just being good reliable dvr's....

    Realistically I don't expect a $100-$200 D* HD DVR to do everything that a several hundred dollar dedicated media server can do, and I don't want it to if it causes issues with normal, dependable operation, including responsiveness.
     

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