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I need wiring help for a 33 room hotel.....

Discussion in 'DIRECTV Installation/MDU Discussion' started by TreyS, Mar 1, 2009.

  1. Mar 1, 2009 #1 of 36
    TreyS

    TreyS Legend

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    Aug 22, 2006
    UPDATE - Pics added in a below thread!!


    I work for a company that has a 33 room hotel in our conference center on the corporate campus.

    Currently we have SD DirecTV to all 33 rooms. The dual LNB dish is on the roof and the cables come into a distribution room where we have one Hughes sat box for each channel (basic business package) and then they are multiplexed back into one cable that is distributed to each room. I'm not exactly sure how it really works but it does.

    What I want to do is put an OTA antenna on the roof and run it into the same room with the DirecTV equipment then feed the OTA signal to just two of the rooms and use diplexers where we have LCD panels capable of HD video.

    I'll try and take pics of the room with all the DirecTV equipment if that helps.



    I'm basically doing this at my home and this is what has led me to this question.


    My home is setup this way (I want to duplicate the OTA config):

    http://www.dbstalk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=6111&d=1156285551
     
  2. Mar 1, 2009 #2 of 36
    Grentz

    Grentz New Member

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    To be honest it sounds like this will not be dealing with the Directv side at all. From what you say I envision your setup as this:

    Blue=Directv Technology Red=NonDirectv
    Dual LNB Dish
    ||
    Multiswitch
    |||||||||||
    Receivers, one for each channel

    |||||||||||
    Some other modulator/RF combiner (not Directv)
    ||||||||||||||||||||||||
    TVs


    So I would say you need to figure out more how the modulator/RF combiner system works and then figure out if you can diplex with that. If it is a modulator type setup, you will have to make sure the OTA channels are not lined up with any of the channels being modulated as they would be on the same frequencies. It is not as clean and easy as diplexing with normal Directv as you actually have converted them back to normal OTA channels now as far as the TVs are concerned.
     
  3. Mar 1, 2009 #3 of 36
    carl6

    carl6 Moderator Staff Member DBSTalk Club

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    Seattle, WA
    Diplexing is not what you want to do. You are able to get the coax from the off-air antenna to your equipment room separate from the satellite coax, right? If not, then you can diplex that on the satellite coax, and pick it back off before the feeds from the dish go to any of the DirecTV receivers. That will get you the ota signals in your equipment room.

    Do you still need the DirecTV channels in the two rooms with the LCD displays? If you do not, then simply put the ota signal on the coax to those rooms and you are done.

    If you do need to keep the DirecTV channels in those two rooms, and add the off-air, your cheapest and easiest solution is to run more coax. You can't diplex the ota onto the coax with the DirecTV channels, because the DirecTV channels at that point are regular TV channels (or cable channels), they are not satellite signals. You might be able to mix the ota channels into the mix of DirecTV channels, but you are going to need some very expensive filters, and you will probably have to shuffle the DirecTV channels around to different channel assignments so that the ota channel frequencies are not being used by them. By the time you make all the necessary adjustments and changes, you will have spent quite a bit more than a couple of coax runs will cost (including labor to install them).
     
  4. Mar 2, 2009 #4 of 36
    Grentz

    Grentz New Member

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    Exactly, it would pretty much be a puzzle to line up the actual OTA channels in the area and the Directv modulated channels from the RF setup and make everything work without interference.

    Easiest is to run another coax line or dump the Directv channels in those specific rooms (if the runs are home run to the distribution area).
     
  5. Mar 2, 2009 #5 of 36
    rocket69

    rocket69 AllStar

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    Oct 26, 2008
    What you need a is a super home node it will combine catv and uhf chanels . This unit will not pass vhf SD/digital once the digital switch is over all chanels shuld go on the uhf band. look at antennaweb . org
     
  6. Mar 2, 2009 #6 of 36
    BkwSoft

    BkwSoft Legend

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    Oct 18, 2007
    If you are looking for the Modulated DTV and your OTA channels to these two rooms on your existing coax you will need to look into getting some digital channel processors. You will need one processor for each of the OTA carriers you wish to pass through. Most of the available processors will transcode the OTA signal from 8VSB modulation to QAM. You should verify that your flat pannels can handle QAM signals. A cheaper option if you have sufficent spacing around your modulated channels would be to use single channel strip amplifiers to pass the OTA channels into your combiner(s). The main issue with the strip amps is the filters in them are set up for analog channels and are not specifically set up for digital.
     
  7. Mar 2, 2009 #7 of 36
    yogi

    yogi Legend

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    Just combine you OTA signal with the DirecTV modulated signal before the launch amp. As long as the directv Mod. channels are less Ch. XX(60) you be ok.
    Use a U/V splitter to combine the OTA and Directv signals
     
  8. Mar 2, 2009 #8 of 36
    boba

    boba Hall Of Fame

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    TreyS you are getting many answers from amatuers that have no concept of how a "Head end System" is setup, contact the original installers of the system or another installer that is familiar with commercial SMATV distribution systems. What you want to do is quite possible but may be costly depending on your existing system. You have provided little information about the existing equipment.
     
  9. Mar 2, 2009 #9 of 36
    BattleZone

    BattleZone Hall Of Fame

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    boba is correct. Most head-end systems typically use most of the frequencies that would be used by OTA signals, which means you could not diplex digital OTA into the line. Bkwsoft has the right solution, but I can tell you right now it's going to be a lot more expensive than you imagine, as equipment for digital is vastly more expensive than analog.

    Since you only need OTA in 2 rooms, it would almost certainly be more cost-effective to run cable to them from the antenna.
     
  10. yogi

    yogi Legend

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    Feb 8, 2006
    Some of us are not amatuers.
    Since Headends are mainly accessing VHF(low,mid, and high band) and digtal OTA are UHF(for now). You can combine the two with a UHF/VHF splitter.
    So some of us have a CONCEPT of how a headend system works.:D
     
  11. BattleZone

    BattleZone Hall Of Fame

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    Channels 2-13 are VHF. 14 and up are UHF freqs. The smallest head-end I've worked on was 24 channels (Ch 2 - 25), but most are at least 36 channels. That's well into the UHF range.
     
  12. BkwSoft

    BkwSoft Legend

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    I doubt any of the channels are actually UHF. Most head-ends will use a "cable" channel plan which channel 98 (A-2), 99(A-1) and 14-22 (A-I) are in the "Mid Band" (108-170Mhz) just above the FM band. Where as UHF (14-22)is 471-520Mhz. One reason for the difference is the closer you have your channels in frequency, the easier it is to compensate for the slope of the cable plant.
     
  13. boba

    boba Hall Of Fame

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    Or much more common using modulated cable frequencies for lower signal loss and better equipment selection. If TreyS' hotel does use cable channels that makes adding OTA channels even harder because the TV tuners are only duplicated on CH 2-13.
     
  14. yogi

    yogi Legend

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    Feb 8, 2006
    What ??
    Please explain
     
  15. BkwSoft

    BkwSoft Legend

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    Most modern TV tuners can one tune one channel plan at any time. If the TV is in "Cable" mode, it will have only channels 2-13 in common with OTA. Although there is some overlap with the CATV Hyper Band and UHF and some TV's automatic fine tuning can adjust for the differences it should not be counted on.
     
  16. yogi

    yogi Legend

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    Feb 8, 2006
    I got it.
    But, If he just wanted digital OTA in two rooms with HD TV's. Combining the headend with the digital OTA is still the way to go.
     
  17. jwd45244

    jwd45244 Hall Of Fame

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    Actually, for a great many DMAs you are wrong. There a number of Digital OTA stations using VHF and come June 12, 2009, many more will be.
     
  18. BkwSoft

    BkwSoft Legend

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    My DMA would be a good example. All but the local PBS has already shutdown their analog transmissions. Two of the stations have moved their digital back to their old analog carriers in VHF-High.
     
  19. yogi

    yogi Legend

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    How I'm I wrong.
    The concept is the same. If it's in VHF it would be easier.
     
  20. TreyS

    TreyS Legend

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    Aug 22, 2006
    Getting back to this....below are pics of the current setup in the closet.

    Dual LNB round Dish on the roof feeds this room. Each receiver is tuned to a dedicated channel then, I assume, all the channels are muxed back into one coax feed and off to each one of the 33 rooms. There are no receivers in the rooms.

    I also believe that each room is daisy chained with coax to the next room and is why this rack exists in the first place vs just putting a receiver in each room.

    I now want to swap the dish on the roof to the latest HD dish and upgrade the rooms to DirecTV HD but don't know if it's even possible with the building wiring.

    [​IMG]
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    [​IMG]
     

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