1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

In wake of recent shootings FL wants to loosen Gun Control! I love it!

Discussion in 'The OT' started by cj9788, Jan 26, 2011.

  1. Feb 2, 2011 #241 of 256
    Stewart Vernon

    Stewart Vernon Roving Reporter Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

    21,572
    373
    Jan 7, 2005
    Kittrell, NC
    Not everyone in this thread has acknowledged it, though... because there have been several examples (including the thread title itself) that seem to advocate the position that if more people had guns at a given shooting, then less lives would have been lost... then they extrapolate that to a need to have less gun control.

    I was just pointing out that even if we had zero gun control laws, there would still be places where guns weren't allowed by the owners of that property... and shootings might take place there... so the ultimate conclusion has to be that gun control OR lack of gun control really doesn't matter in the scheme of things in terms of stopping the criminal.

    Laws only affect law-abiding citizens... and I just wanted to interject another way of saying that.

    Some like to say that having a gun = protection... but it doesn't always mean anything. You have to have your gun, know how to use it, and have it at the ready and be able to shoot before you get shot first likely by the surprise criminal... and that's a lot of "what ifs" to have to connect before automatically equating having a gun to being safer.

    Add to that... the criminal doesn't know if you have a gun or not... and while that might deter some criminals... undoubtedly the crazy ones don't care if they get shot, so they'll come anyway... so there goes the deterrent factor too.
     
  2. Feb 2, 2011 #242 of 256
    MysteryMan

    MysteryMan Well-Known Member DBSTalk Club

    8,318
    459
    May 17, 2010
    USA
    Given what you stated ("and so we are back to not solving the problem again because the criminal will still break the law") more gun control is not and has never been the answer. Criminal control is. Create jobs and boost the economy by building more prisons. They are certainly needed. Do away with parole. Make them serve every minute of their sentence. Commit a felony a second time and your done. Life sentence for being a repeat offender! And screw this "cruel and unusual" attitude when it comes to the death penalty. Apply it in force by cleaning out death row every Friday 13th! Forget about giving lawyers job security with the 20+ years appeal process. And as for the method used in carrying out a death sentence forget about wasting energy (electricity) or polluting materials (gas, chemicals and gunpowder). Use rope. It's time proven, economical, "green", reusable and biodegradable! ;)
     
  3. Feb 2, 2011 #243 of 256
    MysteryMan

    MysteryMan Well-Known Member DBSTalk Club

    8,318
    459
    May 17, 2010
    USA
    Signs posted on my property border "Never mind the dogs, beware of owner"!
     
  4. Feb 2, 2011 #244 of 256
    MysteryMan

    MysteryMan Well-Known Member DBSTalk Club

    8,318
    459
    May 17, 2010
    USA
    I guess you never heard of "The National Rifle Association". For decades they have endorsed and promoted public safety courses that teach the proper care, handling and use of firearms by well trained and certified "civilian" instructors. You must be one of those who want more government in our lives. :rolleyes: "When gun laws are tighter there is no question".The truth is they have done very little in preventing crime. "if there is a gun there is a problem" WRONG! If there is a criminal there is a problem. Very simple.
     
  5. Feb 2, 2011 #245 of 256
    bobukcat

    bobukcat Hall Of Fame

    1,965
    2
    Dec 20, 2005
    I understand what you are trying to say, but you seem to either be missing the point that some of us are making or you just chose to ignore it. There is no disputing that the parts of this country with the strictest gun control laws have the most violent crime. At the top of that list is Washington DC and they have had a gun ban for 30 years, so it's not like it just hasn't had time to work yet! Chicago is another one with a long-standing ban on guns and their violent crime rate is horrible.

    I guess what I'm trying to say is that more guns don't mean that NO crime will be committed or that anyone carrying a firearm is then intrinsically safe from bodily harm - look at world leaders who have scores of security agents and they are still targeted (sometimes successfully) by madmen. There are no guarantees in life - except death which will most surely visit each of us at some point.

    At the same time more / stricter gun laws do NOT equate to lower crime rates, so why pass more? In fact the data supports that areas where "shall issue" concealed carry permits are implemented the crime rates drop. The gun banners always predict bullets flying everywhere and an "OK Corral" happening on every street corner but it's been proven that it just doesn't happen.
     
  6. Feb 2, 2011 #246 of 256
    MysteryMan

    MysteryMan Well-Known Member DBSTalk Club

    8,318
    459
    May 17, 2010
    USA
    +1
     
  7. Feb 2, 2011 #247 of 256
    BattleScott

    BattleScott Hall Of Fame

    2,353
    7
    Aug 28, 2006
    As in just about any sort of issue like this, the facts are largely ignored. Gun-control is not the first issue where those seeking to control behavior through legislation have made matters worse, then refuse to admit any problems. And it certainly won't be the last.

    Someone mentioned the Phseudophedrine laws earlier, they are perfect example of the same issue. Here in Ohio, they passed legislation several years ago to remove any products containing it off the shelves and behind the pharmacy counters. Furthermore, those wishing to purchase it now have to sign a ledger and have their name entered into a database to track the purchases (sound familiar yet?) Seems harmless enough, right? This should be a simple way to keep it out of the hands of those who seek to cook it into Meth.

    Fast forward a few years and what have these laws really accomplished?

    * Retail price of my Sinus Advil caplets is now nearly twice what it was prior to the laws. I now pay around $12 for a 40 ct pack.
    * I have to wait in line for 5 - 10 mins at the pharmacy counter.
    * No reduction in meth production.
    * A lucrative "black-market" trade industry has now started up and a new strain of "supply chain criminals" has been created.

    What a success story!
     
  8. Feb 2, 2011 #248 of 256
    James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

    45,300
    913
    Apr 17, 2003
    Michiana
    A good thing ... but as stated in my post, if you agree to restrictions on gun ownership you agree with gun control and oppose those who push for unrestricted arms ownership.

    Again, chicken or egg. Did the crimes increase the control or did the control increase the crimes? You seem to be blaming violent crime on gun control. I'm seeing gun control as a response to violent crime. Not a solution (removing access to weapons does not remove the "reason" people commit violent crimes) but a response. If violent people don't have a gun they will just find other ways to kill people. Guns just make killing easier.
     
  9. Feb 3, 2011 #249 of 256
    Rich

    Rich DBSTalk Club DBSTalk Club

    26,075
    460
    Feb 22, 2007
    Piscataway, NJ
    Since the gun issue has been beaten like a junk yard dog, perhaps we should segue into the WAR ON DRUGS. That would be interesting.

    Rich
     
  10. Feb 3, 2011 #250 of 256
    MysteryMan

    MysteryMan Well-Known Member DBSTalk Club

    8,318
    459
    May 17, 2010
    USA
    "War On Drugs", now there's a contradiction of terms.
     
  11. Feb 3, 2011 #251 of 256
    Rich

    Rich DBSTalk Club DBSTalk Club

    26,075
    460
    Feb 22, 2007
    Piscataway, NJ
    I thought BattleScott's last post had merit and I started a thread on that subject. Threw in prostitution while I was at it.

    Rich
     
  12. Feb 3, 2011 #252 of 256
    bobukcat

    bobukcat Hall Of Fame

    1,965
    2
    Dec 20, 2005
    The murder rates have gotten much worse in the 30 years that DC's gun ban has been the law of the land - that is a LOT of chickens and eggs!! :)

    I'm not really blaming violent crime on gun control, but it does make victims easier to prey on. The Supreme Court pretty much said the same thing in the "Heller" decision in which they said that citizens who aren't otherwise prohibited from owning a gun (felons, mentally handicapped, etc.) are entitled to be able to defend themselves with the types of firearms most commonly and effectively used for that purpose. They also said that since laws that require those weapons to be stored in a manner that makes them useless violates the same right of self defense those laws are unconstitutional.
     
  13. Feb 3, 2011 #253 of 256
    BattleScott

    BattleScott Hall Of Fame

    2,353
    7
    Aug 28, 2006
    We should start a sticky called "Guns, Drugs and Hookers!"... :D
     
  14. Feb 3, 2011 #254 of 256
    James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

    45,300
    913
    Apr 17, 2003
    Michiana
    The fastest thread to be closed that wasn't spam?
     
  15. Feb 3, 2011 #255 of 256
    spartanstew

    spartanstew Dry as a bone

    12,561
    61
    Nov 16, 2005
    Wylie, Texas
    I used to have a picture on my desk of a store in Vegas. The big sign out front proclaimed "Drugs, Guns, Booze"
     
  16. Feb 3, 2011 #256 of 256
    Rich

    Rich DBSTalk Club DBSTalk Club

    26,075
    460
    Feb 22, 2007
    Piscataway, NJ
    Probably could have done that, but this thread kinda discouraged me about the guns part.....:lol:

    Rich
     

Share This Page