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Installer Sanity Check - 2nd HD DVR

Discussion in 'DIRECTV Installation/MDU Discussion' started by pcguru83, Jan 8, 2011.

  1. Jan 8, 2011 #1 of 17
    pcguru83

    pcguru83 Cool Member

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    Hey guys,

    First off, I know just enough about what I'm about to explain to be dangerous, but here goes.

    I had an absolutely horrible install experience today. Installer was supposed to come out to install a 2nd HD DVR into a 2nd room. Seemed pretty simple enough. Prior to the install, we had a very vanilla setup--one HD DVR with a single SL3 dish.

    Installer comes out and is only getting a signal from every other transponder(?). The setup screen was showing alternating zeros on the setup page he was looking at. Long story short, he says that there should have been four cables run from the dish to the multiswitch instead of only the two that were currently there. First off, that just didn't pass the sniff test for me. In my (admittedly limited) experience, I've never heard of four coax cables being run directly from a dish. Second off, why didn't he realize that before he started? He comes to this conclusion after he's been working on the setup for over an hour--seems that should have been something that was pretty obvious from the get go. The guy was shady as all get out to begin with, so I'm having red flags go up all over the place.

    To make matters even more interesting, it's after 5pm at this point and darkness isn't too far away. The installer claims he's not dressed appropriately and needs to get into some warmer clothes. Seriously? WTF?!? He wants to come back tomorrow "on his day off" to finish the install and run the extra 2 lines from the dish. I agree, only because I wanted to research what this guy was telling me, and I figure that will give me the time to do that. So here I am.

    Is this guy full of it? I consulted with a buddy of mine who is somewhat up on satellite installs and he said it sounded fishy, but he's been out of the scene for a while. He said he thought that it sounded like I need a SWIM(?) setup, and not four cables run from the dish.

    Can someone give me some general guidance on what's going on here? My setup doesn't seem like it should be that complicated, with only an HD SL3 dish and two HD DVRs. Any advice would be greatly appreciated!
     
  2. Jan 8, 2011 #2 of 17
    Kevin F

    Kevin F Hall Of Fame

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    How many lines are coming to your working dvr?
     
  3. Jan 8, 2011 #3 of 17
    pcguru83

    pcguru83 Cool Member

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    Aug 8, 2007
    Two.
     
  4. Jan 8, 2011 #4 of 17
    Yoda-DBSguy

    Yoda-DBSguy Hall Of Fame

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    A Galaxy...
    If you have the older style ka/ku dish with the lnb that has an integrated 4 output switch type; then yes all 4 cables must be ran into a zinwell or omprable 6x8 multiswitch. so he is correct.

    The alternative is to change the dish to one that will support an SWiM style LNB type. With SWiM, there only has to be one line ran from the dish which gets split using a green labeled splitter within the house. One cable per receiver is all that is needed and will support 2 tuners with that sole run per receiver. With an SWiM setup, there is a tuner limitation and the technology is NOT compatible with older legacy equipment. If you only have the one other HD DVR, then the SWiM setup will be your best route since it can also support whole house dvr service as well as internet though coaxial if you ever so choose. If you however have any older legacy satellite receivers within your house then you'll want to go the route I explained with your current dish and runing all 4 lines from the dish to the aforementioned 6x8 switch.

    So the installer has a valid assessment; however he should have been prepaired with the proper equipment and clothing oin order to get your install completed on the first trip.
     
  5. Jan 8, 2011 #5 of 17
    pcguru83

    pcguru83 Cool Member

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    Aug 8, 2007
    Thanks, that makes sense. I'm not sure about the dish, other than the fact he called it an "SL3". It was just installed this past April. The HD DVRs are an HR23 and an HR24 (the one just brought today)--no really old equipment.

    The installer actually mentioned SWM, but advised it is pricey to install and would not be included in my work order. Should I really push for this with DirecTV? I don't see us going the whole home route, as we really won't have the need as long as we have the 2 HD DVRs. With that being said, sounds like this 4 cable setup, while maybe not pretty, should do the job. Sound about right?
     
  6. Jan 8, 2011 #6 of 17
    sigma1914

    sigma1914 Well-Known Member DBSTalk Club

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    Make sure he adds BBCs to the HR24 if he doesn't upgrade you to SWM. The HR23 you have doesn't require external BBCs, but all others do, including the HR24.
     
  7. Jan 8, 2011 #7 of 17
    pcguru83

    pcguru83 Cool Member

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    Aug 8, 2007
    BBC = B-Band Converter? I noticed these hanging off the HR24 and was wondering what they were for, so looks like I'm covered there. Thanks.
     
  8. Jan 8, 2011 #8 of 17
    Yoda-DBSguy

    Yoda-DBSguy Hall Of Fame

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    A Galaxy...
    Yup; you'll be good to go with the 4 lines runing from the dish. Basically 2 lines get ran from the dish to each receiver enableing dual tuner capability for each.
     
  9. Jan 8, 2011 #9 of 17
    pcguru83

    pcguru83 Cool Member

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    Awesome, thanks. Does this make a multiswitch unnecessary as well?
     
  10. kcaudiofx

    kcaudiofx Legend

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    Dec 26, 2009

    Sounds like a rookie too me.. From what I understand, BEFORE the installer showed up you had ONE WORKING HOOKED UP HDDVR? He was there to ADD another HDDVR? And you had (or actually still have) 2 lines coming from the dish STRAIGHT to the HDDVR? This guy (installer) really sounds like a rookie.. You dont NEED a switch on that dish you have unless you have 5+ tuners, you only have 2 (will be 4) so all he needs to do is run 2 more lines from the dish straight to the NEW HDDVR.. very simple process... I guess if the installer really wants to waste D*'s money he sould add 2 more lines from the dish and put a 6x8 there but it would be pointless... Too me doesnt sound too complicated, I am sure the tech had coax on his truck where he can add 2 lines for ya.. I dont know, but SOUNDS like he isnt coming back, I could be wrong but id be on the phone REAL REAL quick if he doesnt show back up when he says he will..
     
  11. pcguru83

    pcguru83 Cool Member

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    Aug 8, 2007
    Cool, this is starting to make sense. Sounds like this answers my question about the multiswitch above--not even necessary. But you nailed the setup, that's exactly right.

    And yeah, I'm going to be on the phone with DirecTV the minute this guy leaves tomorrow (assuming he shows up). I've only just touched on how bad this guy really was--his incompetence and lack of willingness to actually WORK are only the beginning. The guy was a real piece of work.
     
  12. Datacommtv john

    Datacommtv john Cool Member

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    Jan 3, 2011


    Hello all, here is my first post so let's see if I put my foot in my mouth ( some times I do it very well)

    Depending on the current DVR you have and what was on the installers work order it's some what possible. As an installer and commercial dealer every install can be a piece of cake or a f***ing nightmare.

    Let's start and assume you have an hr21 with a sl3 head and are adding an hr24 Then yes you need 4 lines from the dish 2 to each receiver and you need B-band on each line. Next if you have a hr23 then no b-bands are needed on the hr23 but you do need them on the hr 24.

    Why your installer did not investigate your install before starting is his mistake. What is getting me is that you were only receiving half of the transponders where you state alternating zeros. You also said 2 lines to a multi switch, with only 1 dvr you don't need or want a switch in that configuration. If you install a sl 3 or sl 5 head and need 5 or more tuners then you need a 6x8 switch. 4 or less no switch.

    To understand how a 6x8 works and stacks the sat signals, lines 1 and 2 bring down the 101 and the 99 odd and even signals, on lines 3 and 4 in a sl 5 you have the 110 119 and the 103 in a sl 3 only the 103 is brought down.

    If you only have 2 lines from your dish, how did he connect your new DVR it to see it work?

    Based on what you said, I think if you only had 1 DVR the easiest way to upgrade you would be to change the LNB to a SL 3-S head with a power supply and the proper SWM splitter and then you only need 1line to each DVR and do not install B-bands any where. This will also allow you to do multi room viewing (MRV). If both of your receivers are hr24 then you could also add a DECA BB for ON DEMAND, or add a DECA to each DVR.

    Hope this helps and not adding more to the confusion

    John
     
  13. bleggett29

    bleggett29 Legend

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    Looks like the installer tried to install a 6x8 using only two lines from the dish.
     
  14. Datacommtv john

    Datacommtv john Cool Member

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    Jan 3, 2011
    Then why only one polarity ?
     
  15. HoTat2

    HoTat2 Hall Of Fame

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    Los...
    No problem, we all do at some point and all we can do is try to minimize the occurrences.

    BTW, welcome to DBStalk :welcome_s, but how is this actually your first post when your post count reads "6?" :)

    Not quite;

    A legacy SlimeLine-3 LNB is internally modified to send the 101 Ku frequency band block (950-1450 MHz) down the other two "Sat B" lines along with the two adjacent Ka band 103 blocks as well.

    Actually the Broad Band DECA can provide home network/internet access for any H/HR2X receiver in a WHDVR setup (excepting the H20 STB). And the HR24s do not use external DECA dongle adapters, but have internal ones.
     
  16. HoTat2

    HoTat2 Hall Of Fame

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    Los...
    My guess would be that assuming it is either the 101 or 119 signal level screen the technician and OP were referring to as having the alternate zero levels, is that the technician likely ran one of the two coax cables from the dish to one of the "Sat A" (99/101) inputs of the multiswitch and the other to one of the "Sat B" (103/110/119) inputs.

    This would result in an alternate zero level transponder pattern on both screens.
     
  17. prestone683

    prestone683 Legend

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    We were all new at installing at one point. The best thing one can do is understand that he's probably a new installer and is trying.

    The next thing you have to understand is that he (if he works for an HSP) isn't supposed to just do whatever. Meaning he can't just install a SWM if its not on the work order. If he's new, and he sounds like he is, he will get a QC. Installing the wrong LNB, power inserters, SWM splitters, etc. Will fail your QC. I know its easier. But its not ok according to DTV. AND, they haven't officially allowed SWiM upgrades yet.

    He had a bad day, or he's a new installer. One or the other. I've had them too. 5pm. Cold as a bitch, ready to go home and get dry. Some people cut it and stay, others leave and come back.

    I once did a pole mount several hundred feet out, and told the guy I'd be back on my day off to bury his wire. He paid well, and understood my predicament.

    We are giving 5 weeks of training, and it sucks to be put on the spot, about how to complete every possible scenario in that time.

    My two cents...

    Hope my opinion counts.
     

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