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Is "moving" illegal?

Discussion in 'General Satellite Discussion' started by ARKDTVfan, Jul 3, 2003.

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  1. Jul 3, 2003 #1 of 60
    ARKDTVfan

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    I'm barely in the Shrevport DMA, if I lived about 10 miles north I'd be in the Little Rock DMA which are the locals I want when D adds them,of course if DBS was playing by the same rules as cable I'd be able to get both.
     
  2. Jul 3, 2003 #2 of 60
    davhol

    davhol AllStar

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    Strictly speaking, yes, "moving" (in the sense of falsifying your address to receive something for which the current laws do not allow you to receive) is illegal. You have to deal with the moral consequences/obligations of your actions. Strictly speaking, it is just as "illegal" as fabricating a smart card to allow you to get programs that you don't pay for (a matter of "degree"). Others may disagree, but you asked a question that implies a moral standard for the response. This is my response to your question.
    Oh, as for the "DBS rules"... this is/was imposed by Congress/FCC and not the DBS companies. They want you to have the same (level) playing field that the cable companies enjoy.
     
  3. Jul 3, 2003 #3 of 60
    joe

    joe Guest

    but you are paying for a service and you are not stealing anything..........
     
  4. Jul 3, 2003 #4 of 60
    davhol

    davhol AllStar

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    It is considered "stealing" if you're not entitled to the service, whether you pay for it or not. These are the current laws. Whether they _should_ be this way or not is not the question. The question is (rephrased): can I lie to a service provider about my qualifications to get something the law currently doesn't allow me to get if I told you the absolute truth? Paying for it is irrelevant.
     
  5. Jul 3, 2003 #5 of 60
    joe

    joe Guest

    no its not!!! the providor should be punished for not verifying addresses...not the legal consumer
     
  6. Jul 3, 2003 #6 of 60
    waydwolf

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    This is the same attitude as people who say, "well, the cable company should have shut me off two years ago. It isn't my fault their guy never did it and left the line active."

    You have both LEGAL and MORAL responsibilities to NOT receive anything you are not rightly entitled to and the responsibility is yours to do everything in your power to not receive anything you aren't supposed to. If you get the wrong channels for your area, or the cable is left on and you aren't paying, or the power is on when you don't have an electric company account, or whatever.
     
  7. Jul 3, 2003 #7 of 60
    joe

    joe Guest

    no i'm paying for service i'm not stealing anything
     
  8. Jul 3, 2003 #8 of 60
    Nick

    Nick Retired, part-time PITA DBSTalk Club

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    The...
    It is not "stealing" or "illegal", for no laws are violated. (FCC regulations are not "laws" and they do not apply to consumers, they apply to DBS and broadcast industry providers.) In your case, If you choose to use an address that is 10-15 miles down the road, that is your business, and frankly, I don't believe E* really gives a damn.

    In my case, I actually moved 300 miles down the road and, whoops, 'forgot' to tell E*, so I still get locals from my former DMA. :) What they don't know or choose not to know doesn't hurt anyone, and I still pay full boat thru autopay.

    It's the idiotic rules by which we learn to play the game.
     
  9. Jul 3, 2003 #9 of 60
    CrankyYankee

    CrankyYankee Mentor

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    Zip code 05001(White River Jct, VT)...Dish Network will not/can not sell me any Boston channels.
    However, Adelphia cable has WBZ-TV4(Boston) on the cable for it's customers. Is that level?!
    Cable customers in Windham County in southern VT have Boston channels on their cable, but Dish cannot sell them VT channels! (Southern VT is in the Boston ADI.) Zip code 05363(Wilmington VT) has six Boston channels, and three VT stations.
    In This Zip code, Dish will let me order the Boston stations, but not the VT channels. Eh?!
     
  10. Greg Bimson

    Greg Bimson Hall Of Fame

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    Dish Network customers in Baltimore cannot get Baltimore channels, is that level?

    Until all markets are up, consumers shouldn't be worried about getting two or more sets of locals when many markets cannot get their own market.
     
  11. digipoke

    digipoke New Member

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    Jun 1, 2003
    "It is not "stealing" or "illegal", for no laws are violated. (FCC regulations are not "laws" and they do not apply to consumers, they apply to DBS and broadcast industry providers."


    This has nothing to due with the FCC. A law passed by Congress governs the delivery of local-into-local.

    For the first time, the Satellite Home Viewer Improvement Act of 1999 (SHVIA) permits satellite companies to provide local broadcast TV signals to all subscribers who reside in the local TV station’s market (also referred to as a Designated Market Area ("DMA")), as defined by Nielsen Media Research. This ability to provide local broadcast channels is commonly referred to as "local-into-local" service.
     
  12. Unthinkable

    Unthinkable Guest

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    I imagine you are already aware of this, but I recently vacationed up in Nova Scotia and New Brunswick Canada where most every hotel I stayed in featured the major Boston locals on the various Canadian cable providers. I can only imagine what the local Canadians think on a nightly basis when they see ads for KFC showing family meals priced WAY WAY lower in the US then what they are paying for the same thing. Unbelievable difference in prices for some things like food and hotels. Gas was like $2.69 a gallon up there at one station.

    One other example:

    Wendy's 5 piece Chicken Nuggets: 99 cents US in the US.
    Wendy's 6 piece Chicken Nuggets: 2.69 Canadian in Canada.

    Conversion was like .702 or something as far as the Canadian dollars worth to the US dollar.
     
  13. Brett

    Brett Legend

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    The selection of local channels on hotel lineups can be interesting. A Mt. Holly hospital nearby me carries WWOR and WPIX on their channel lineup, even though the local Comcast cable system doesnt offer it. And it looks WWOR and WPIX are over the air pickups being grainy (definitely not E*. E* supers can look smeary but not grainy).
     
  14. Brett

    Brett Legend

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    Jan 14, 2003
    There is a federal crime: mail fraud. However "moving" is lying about the service address, not the mailing address and doesnt involve mailing.

    At the other forum, discussion of "moving" is permitted. Dan Collins explained:

     
  15. bills976

    bills976 Godfather/Supporter

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    Jun 30, 2002
    "Moving" to avoid Pegasus is justified, imo. "Moving" to get additional locals, less justified, though still has merit.
     
  16. Nick

    Nick Retired, part-time PITA DBSTalk Club

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    The...
    "It is not unlawful. It is, however, highly unethical."

    "Highly unethical"? According whose "ethics"? Those of the Satellite Users Crying Society? "Highly unethical?" I pay for what I get and you get no say in the matter.

    As long as I pay for the programming I am receiving, what does it matter if my address is on one side of an arbitrary line or another? Rules made by fools are made to be broken, or at least severely 'bent'. And don't give that tired old argument that the local broadcasters and their advertisers lose (not loose) because my eyeball (see avatar) is not captive to the plethora of screaming-maniac car dealer spots. I could care less; that's why I have AEP and am building a library of movies on DVD. I'll watch what I want to watch, when I want to watch it.

    I say f*** the advertisers - I pay a bunch to watch commercial-free TV, and the advertisers, with their lousy, boring, repetitive, unentertaining spots, get nothing from me!

    But, that's just my opinion. Yours may differ... :)
     
  17. Chris Freeland

    Chris Freeland Hall Of Fame

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    Yea, it is the ethical thing that has kept me from moving to Atlanta, if it was not for that I would have moved long ago, I can not judge other people but I can not in all good conscience move :shrug: . I will just be patient and wait for the Chattanooga locals and the SuperDish to come in Q4 ;) .
     
  18. The other less talked about advantage to moving is the sports package. I've moved to pick up the RSN I want to watch vs. the one Fox wants me to watch. This gets me around another group of dictators...MLB. Just because I live in a certain geographical spot does not mean I want to watch that team. Again...who gets hurt here? I wouldn't watch the local offering on Fox (Dodgers/Angels) and I do watch the teams I want to see (Giants/A's). Because I am watching Fox Net, I am also seeing their commercials. If I didn't move, I wouldn't see them at all.
     
  19. Jacob S

    Jacob S Hall Of Fame

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    This is one of those things that are in gray area, just like those that take a satellite receiver to another location. If you do that then you still receive those channels at the other location (like a second home or your get away cabin).
     
  20. Brett

    Brett Legend

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    Jan 14, 2003
    That was not my statement. I was quoting from somebody else, and the last line was just an opinion. I shouldnt have included the last line.

    The point is its not illegal by law, but just a lie to the service provider and the service provider could terminate your service. However both service providers want your money.

    The NAB could make an issue about it though and get Congressional legislation to force the DBS providers to verify the service address is the actual address the receiver is located.
     
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