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Is religion the root of all evil?

Discussion in 'The OT' started by Chris Blount, Dec 26, 2003.

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  1. Chris Blount

    Chris Blount Creator of DBSTalk Staff Member Administrator DBSTalk Gold Club

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    Okay, I know this topic may start some "stuff" (substitute appropriate slang) but I often wonder about how religion seems to be the base of war. It seems that all wars have some sort of "religion" involved. Can anyone name any war that was NOT based on religion?

    I was talking about this with friends the other day. We joked about how God must be looking down on us and laughing is butt off. He either created religion to keep us from destroying ourselves or using it as a cruel joke to see how long it would take us before we destroyed ourselves.

    I know this may go against the grain of some of your beliefs so please try and control your emotions when answering. I, myself, am a catholic and am not trying to be blasphemous. I just wonder sometimes. Could we be better off without religion?
     
  2. invaliduser88

    invaliduser88 Welcome to Torchwood DBSTalk Gold Club

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    Evil certainly is a good way of selling religion. But, the concepts of Good and Evil are, IMO, more basic than the churches definition.
     
  3. BobMurdoch

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    It depends on the religion. I haven't seen too many conquering Buddhists lately.

    History is littered with wars started by people who decided to kill people because "God/Allah/pick the deity of your choice" told them to. I know where you are coming from, though. Some of the most devout religious types are also some of the most intolerant of others' belief systems. Meanwhile, folks who haven't stepped into a church or temple in more than 10 years tend to be more tolerant of those who DO wish to practice their faith.

    I was raised Roman Catholic, was an altar boy for 8 years (kindergarten to 8th grade... I was "old" for my age), and went to church 1-2 times a week for most of my grade school years. Although I still went weekly in high school, I drifted away in College, and am part of the C & E crowd mostly (Christmas and Easter). My son is in CCD, but the closed mindedness of the people running the Church have turned me off. Basically, I believe in God, but I have lost faith in the people running the show down here in "His name".

    But you're right, hitting this subject this is the fastest way to start a fight than "E* or D* is better because........"
     
  4. Roger

    Roger Banned User

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    Chris:

    “It seems that all wars have some sort of "religion" involved. Can anyone name any war that was NOT based on religion?”

    This is not true. I challenge you to name a war (US involved) within the past 227 years under this current system that was based on religion? The Revolutionary War was for independence. All the other wars since then and up to the Civil War were wars for land.
    WW1 and WW2 were two out of three the wars envisioned by the satanic possessed mason Albert Pike to set up a NWO or One World government with WW1 failing with the League of Nations and the WW2 succeeding with the United Nations.

    The Banana Republic wars were about money and for corporations.
    The Cold War was to line the pockets of the military industry complex and scare us into a “peaceful” One World Government.
    Korea was a charade and support of the above.
    Ditto for Vietnam and the fact that we were going to take control of the world drug supply from the French in the Golden Triangle.
    Iraq one and two are about oil and rebuilding infrastructure for the Republican cronies companies like Halliburton.
    So every war we’ve been in had to do with land, money, oil, and the advancement of a One World Order.

    Don’t think for a second that the so called Saddam isn’t going to be tried by the World Court which this kind of case will give more power to this One World Order entity.

    I can say this... The real followers of Christ would never kill anybody because we’re not aggressive and the Bible states Thou shall not kill. The Christian religion is filled with people who love peace. So IMO, a real follower of Christ would never kill anybody unless it was in self-defense not to mention fight in a stinking war.

    1Ti 6:9 But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition.
    1Ti 6:10 For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.
    1Ti 6:11 But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness.
    1Ti 6:12 Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses.

    I’m not saying that there weren’t wars because of religion; I’m just saying a real man of God would have no part in one.
    Christianity of the KJV Bible is peaceful or should be while Islam teaches death to the infidels. Islam fights with a sword while Christianity preaches the Gospel. Islam and others use a sword while people of God use His Word.

    So IMO, I think the reason for most wars is 1Ti 6:10 For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows. The other reason is to promote a One World Order where the man of sin takes over and fools the people of the world as being a man of peace when the evil people set up the world for a terrible destruction.

    Dan 8:23 And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up.
    Dan 8:24 And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power: and he shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practise, and shall destroy the mighty and the holy people.
    Dan 8:25 And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.

    Praise the Lord Jesus Christ!
     
  5. Halfsek

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    Yeah, religion has been the cause of many wars and deaths.
    But religion has also been the source of much charity and benevolence in this world.

    The real evil is the lack of religion. Communism has resulted in about 100 million deaths in the span of less than 100 years.

    And I'm not a religious guy. But I do respect people who are religious and want them to be able to practice their (non violent) religion freely.
     
  6. RichW

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    Many Catholic Irish-Americans in this country gave money to IRA terrorism direcred at English Protestantism. Furthermore, our own national hisotry includes forcible "conversion" of "heathern" native Americans and Hawaiians. And, of course, many many African slaves were forced into Christianity by their masters.

    But in a sense, Roger is right. Wars and atrocities are not really based upon religion, but rather religious differences were used to foment hatred toward the other side. Thus religion becomes one of many excuses for waging war.
     
  7. spanishannouncetable

    spanishannouncetable Icon

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    "Is religion the root of all evil?"

    Yes
     
  8. Bogy

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    Religion is very often a hateful, destructive force, invented by man to suit his own needs for power and control. It is important to realize that Religion does not equal God. Religion was invented by man to control others by claiming that "god" sent them a message, such as the message that the people living on the other side of the hill were evil pagans who worshiped the wrong "god" and should be killed, especially the men. This would please "god" and they would be rewarded with the captured women, land, etc. The Bible says that God hates religion. I can't remember where it is right now, and I'm too tired to look it up right now, but if religion is something God hates, me too.
     
  9. jwwahly

    jwwahly Legend/Supporter DBSTalk Gold Club

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    to many religions interpreting one book to many ways causes to many wars. every body says their way is right. there is only one bible meant to teach a proper code of conduct and life. argh just lost my train of thought
     
  10. jonstad

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    Bogy! I've finally managed to get through to you.;)

    The next step is to understand the only way to invent religion is to invent gods first.:D

    Roger, you are technically correct that the US has never entered into war officially on religious grounds. It must be understood also though that for most of the history you reference, the US was the first and only country to establish in its Constitution that "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion". A declaration of war then, based on religious tenets, would be a direct violation of the First Amendment.

    However, in the Revolutionary war, and every war thereafter, military and civilian leaders have never been reluctant to indoctrinate the troops and population with the notion that "God is on our side." And this practice is almost indispensible to any nation in any war and has been throughout history. It's very difficult to motivate people to sacrifice and possibily die without faith they are performing "God's will" and will be blessed afterward or in an afterlife for so doing. And it's almost impossible to do it without. The motivation for Russians in WWII was often other troops at the rear ordered to shoot anyone who retreated. German soldiers in WWII certainly believed God was on their side as much as the allies and were blessed by clergy at home and on the battlefield to drive home the point.

    So while wars are most often fought for military and territorial gain, religion is almost always a powerful, if not THE most powerful tool, to enable nations to field an army and fight effectively. And clergy of these nations are most often willing and eager participants in the "enabling".
     
  11. John Corn

    John Corn Hall Of Fame

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    The Cold War
    The Vietnam War
    The Korean War
    WW1
    The Spanish American War
    The Civil War
    The War of 1812
    The Revolutionary War

    You only need look at The Crusades, The Holocaust, The Middle East, Sudan, The Spanish Inquisition, and the events of 9/11 to realize that religion is the biggest contributing factor to war and murder out there.

    That having been said, even if all religion was over with, we'd still come up with excuses to kill each other.
     
  12. Bogy

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    Jon, you know this has always been my stated position on religion. :D
    But I have also always held that man did not invent God, they just interpreted things about God to suit themselves.
     
  13. Bogy

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    Roger, are you too young to remember that for many years we were fighting the "godless communists?" Just fill in the name of which war it was. America added words to the Pledge of Allegience and our money as part of the "war effort." If you look you will find a religious element to all our wars. After all, we are the nation that has been blessed by God over all others, it only right that we should always get our way. :nono2: (this last sentence is sarcasm for those who don't appreciate my subtle sense of humor.)
     
  14. Chris Blount

    Chris Blount Creator of DBSTalk Staff Member Administrator DBSTalk Gold Club

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    I can see your point but all of those wars were still based on human belief systems that originate with some sort of religious context.

    No matter how you slice it, any type of organized thinking that includes an "us vs them" mentality is fundamentally flawed and will lead to conflict at some point with others who don't think the same way.
     
  15. RichW

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    Bogy, I go to church as much for the social contact with believers as for inspiration. In fact I get more spiritual in quiet contemplation of the universe than I do in church (unless its a Black Baptist church). We Lutherans aren't very intense at worship. :)

    Furthermore, I don't accept all of the dogma of any religion... nor do I feel I have a perfect understanding of deity either. To me the search for that understanding is what makes my spiritual life (and gives you preachers an income) :lol:
     
  16. jonstad

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    Yeah, that's the crux, isn't it. And if you could give me any reasonable proof, or even a reason for God, we'd probably agree. But there ain't and so we don't.

    And you know I could live with clergy like you and leave well enough alone(mostly;)). It's the Robertson/Falwells, Mullahs/Ayahtollahs who exploit faith in God for their own purposes who are the problem. They are the ones who promote hatred and fear of others and lead their flocks into warfare. Unfortunately, their message of fire and brimstone is more exciting and appealing to many of those gullible enough to believe in God in the first place. And their value to those in power by being able to deliver cannon fodder insures continued religious over and undertones to every conflict.

    But, and here's that crux again, all of this is facilitated by belief in gods for which there is absolutley no proof. By definition, religions cannot exist without reference to the supernatural. And by definition, the supernatural cannot be shown to exist. So while Man's invented religions may be a facilitator for the conflicts we are discussing, it is belief in gods that is the root cause. You can study and try to manipulate the effect as much as you like. But nothing will change until you address the cause, belief in God(s).
     
  17. Bogy

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    I don't know how you can say such things. I talk to God every day. Isn't the fact that I'm such a nice guy, even with all the abuse you've given me over the years proof of God. :D :lol: :rolleyes: :grin:
     
  18. Strong

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    I grew up in something called the Church of the Bretheren. It sounds like some wacko white supremisist militia, but it actually is the most boring traditional Christian branch ever. Its endless sermons, pathetic hymns (without so much as an organ) was torture for a young kid. Luckily I was asked to leave at age 16 after a tryst in the basement with the daughter of a preacher.

    That being said, if folks want to believe in fairy tales thats their business. I just object when others try to shove their beliefs on me.

    On a somewhat related but rediculously pathtic note (IMHO), check out the story on the earthquake in Iran that killed 20k+ people. http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=574&ncid=721&e=1&u=/nm/20031227/wl_nm/quake_iran_dc

    The pathetic part was how the Iranians will accept help from any country except Israel! If thats true, how sad that even a tragedy like that could not stop religious loonies from acting against their own interests.
     
  19. alfbinet

    alfbinet Godfather

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    What is really sad is that they are from the same blood stock. They have more in common than they realize. Correct me if I am wrong. They share the same initial cannon?
     
  20. jonstad

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    And I talk to my dog every day.(BTW-dog spelled backward is GOD:p;)) But if either of us believe God/dog actually talks back to us, psychiatric intervention is in order.:icon_stup And in either scenario, I actually am on firmer ground as I can produce evidence that my dog(s) exist in reality.:D

    Interesting NOVA last week about research on how the brain works with segments on phantom limbs, blindsight and most germane to this subject, temporal lobe epilepsy. I have heard that epileptics often report altered(enhanced?) states of consciousness and senses immediately following seizures. In the case reported here however, the subject is firmly convinced the emotions and insights generated are so deep, they must be emanating directly from God. So deep, sometimes he is convinced that he IS God.
    http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/transcripts/2812mind.html

    My own musings on this is that this is probably not all that dissimilar to the effects of mind altering drugs like LSD or Peyote. More then a few of us imagined we saw(or were) God:bowdown: and received "insights" via these avenues several decades ago. And in fact, most neuroscientists would probably agree that even without powerful drugs or epileptic seizures, our consciousnesses can and are "altered" daily, or even hour to hour, by a multitude of factors. Whether we get up in a good mood or "on the wrong side of bed" is influenced by quantity and quality of sleep and even what food we ate, and when, the day previous as well as natural and artificial toxins we may have been exposed to.

    None of this proves or disproves God(s) of course. But you should keep in mind next time you are "moved by the power of God" that it could be the pepperoni pizza you had for dinner last night or even a small electical storm in your temporal lobes. :bink:
     
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