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Is the HDPC-20 coming soon?

Discussion in 'DIRECTV General Discussion' started by HDTVFreak07, Aug 21, 2008.

  1. Bushwacr

    Bushwacr Legend

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    Oct 31, 2007
    Huh?

    HDCP is a hardware validation key designed to prevent midstream intercept of a digital signal between two licensed devices like an HR and a qualified HDTV. HDCP does not apply to analog signals and it's not "channel" embedded.

    Are you referring to Tom R's discussion that D* will copy protect all content using the SOC? Different topic entirely with a different set of rules.
     
  2. Grentz

    Grentz New Member

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    HDCP is a way to keep copy protection in place as well since there are no HDCP compatible "recorders" currently and if anyone does come out with one, they can/could be blacklisted. Plus it prevents midstream capturing of the signal because of the verification and encryption.

    The analog outputs could potentially only carry a lower quality version or not even output at all on protected channels.


    It is not a direct copy prevention, but by only having HDCP output for something it would prevent copying at least as of now since there are no HDCP compatible recording devices. (which could change in the future)
     
  3. morphy

    morphy Legend

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    Jun 5, 2007
    The HDCP is definitely a cleaner and cheaper solution. Its going to rock in 2011 when Microsoft announces support for it in Windows 7, SP2. I'm being pessimistic, of course, it could come as early as late 2009.

    edit: and let me just throw in that I have no right to complain compared to people in Europe. Their only satellite service outputs H.264 only so they can't record to VMC without support from Microsoft either. So when DirecTV enforces SOC for premium HD (I dont care if they do it for VOD), I can drop them for Dish and still use my Hauppauge HD-PVR. As far as I know, Europe only has one satellite service, so they could be stuck.
     
  4. rcoleman111

    rcoleman111 Guest

    Simply not true. I suggest you read the FCC rules, which have been posted in this forum previously. The FCC's "encoding rules" specify the following:

    (1) Unencrypted broadcast television – no copy restrictions may be imposed;

    (2) Pay television, non-premium subscription television, and free conditional access
    delivery transmissions – one generation of copies is the most stringent restriction
    that may be imposed; and

    (3) VOD, PPV, or Subscription-on-Demand transmissions – no copies is the most
    stringent restriction that may be imposed, however, even when no copies are
    allowed, such content may be paused up to 90 minutes from its initial
    transmission.

    It's pretty clearcut - they can't use HDMI/HDCP to prevent copying. The most stringent copy-protection that can be used is copy-once, and only for premium and non-premium subscription TV.
     
  5. Grentz

    Grentz New Member

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    Jan 10, 2007
    Will be interesting to see what happens then, since they have already talked about using HDCP (tune to channel 100 for example) and there currently are no recorders that work with HDCP and I dont know if there will be since other mediums such as Blu-Ray which use HDCP use it as a sort of copy prevention and protection.
     
  6. BattleZone

    BattleZone Hall Of Fame

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    Nov 13, 2007
    The "one copy" is the copy you can save on your DVR. A DVR is an HDCP-compliant "1st Gen Copy" device.

    They don't want you to be able to copy to removable/transportable/copiable media.
     
  7. Elephanthead

    Elephanthead Legend

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    Feb 3, 2007
    I only need one copy, just let me connect to it through IP. This is a major bummer, this thing will never make it to market. I guess my options are kludge to a DTV box, or record on a DTV box, and hope it doesn't crash and burn, like it does every month and deletes everything. You know none on these protections are preventing one DVD from being pirated or one thing from being posted on you tube. It is all pointless. It only makes me watch less TV, which I guess is a good thing. It just would be nice to be able to watch the 1% of content that is of somewhat entertainment value, rather then have to take potluck chance something will be on.
     
  8. Ken S

    Ken S RIP

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    Feb 12, 2007
    There are plenty of IPTV type choices available and more coming very quickly. Couple that with OTA and maybe the answer will be that paying for TV services just isn't as necessary as it once was. Of course, the RIAA took too long to figure that out and drove the customers that were willing to pay away. If iTunes has shown anything it's not that everyone wants to steal music...they just want to buy it quickly and in the form they prefer.
     
  9. rcoleman111

    rcoleman111 Guest

    Once copy is allowed over encrypted outputs. That means they can't prevent copying from the set-top box or DVR (and remember, not all receivers even have DVRs in them). Doesn't matter what they want you to be able to do. They have to comply with federal regulations.
     
  10. morphy

    morphy Legend

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    Jun 5, 2007
    There are two options for residential distribution of premium HD over IP:

    1) Cablecard: You have to purchase a new $2000 OEM PC in order to partake of it for the next year or so until your cable company switches to SDV. Even if they don't, Microsoft will stop supporting it in VMC soon. Oh yeah, it only works in VMC.

    2) Hauppauge HD-PVR: Its a kludge, but it works right now. If you're like me, and your media server is out of the way and in a network rack, then the cabling and visual impact is nil. To me, having channel banners and a delay in changing channels is offset by the HR20/21's freezing up from time to time and having the interface of an Atari 2600 in general.
     
  11. Montyward

    Montyward Cool Member

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    Aug 16, 2006
    1) You can get a cablecard PC for $800 from HP currently. Dell is around $1,000 to $1,400. These are good PCs, with a Quad-core processor and solid graphics card. Yes, support is in VMC only, a limitation put in place by CableLabs. SDV may be a problem in some areas, not so much in others. I hope there is some sort of resolution for SDV introduced in the coming year, similar to the tuning adapter for Tivo. My greatest hope is that the HDPC becomes a reality sooner than later.
     
  12. dbsdave

    dbsdave Godfather

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    May 1, 2007
    The way the "insiders" at greenbutton are talking lately, we will be lucky if the hdpc supported by windows 8, nevermind 7. What a disaster.
     
  13. smiddy

    smiddy Tain't ogre til its ogre

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    Apr 5, 2006
    The dream HDPC-20, seems to be just that. :(
     
  14. dbsdave

    dbsdave Godfather

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    May 1, 2007
    Like anything for htpc enthusiasts involving directv and microsoft since the start of time....vaporware.
     
  15. Grentz

    Grentz New Member

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    Jan 10, 2007
    Except this indeed was seen at some technology shows :grin:

    There is still hope that it is just in the shadows and could be released with a driver pack that enabled it in MCE...you never know ;)
     
  16. smiddy

    smiddy Tain't ogre til its ogre

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    Apr 5, 2006
    I've been hoping for this for quite a while and the more I hear the bleaker it gets. I am hopeful, but I will not anticipate its arrival anytime soon. For some reason collaborative efforts seem to drag out. :rolleyes:
     
  17. morphy

    morphy Legend

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    Jun 5, 2007
    If you think about it, it makes perfect sense for Microsoft to hold H.264/DirecTV support until Windows 7. Here's why:

    Even a Microsoft employee on The Green Button will tell you that VMC's target market is a casual user who just wants to play media from their PC on their television. One of the biggest issues on TGB right now is the low resolution of the album cover art in the music queue screen. Seriously: http://thegreenbutton.com/forums/thread/213312.aspx

    I would guess that 90% of the people who are considering purchasing SageTV specifically for use with the Hauppauge HD-PVR already own a Vista Premium or Ultimate license already. Microsoft already has their money, and they don't lose any money if people stop using VMC. So why would they add a feature like this to VMC in a free update? Why not hold it out as a carrot to make people purchase Windows 7?

    The HDPC exists. Its not vaporware. Support from Microsoft existed at one time as well. From what I understand, the first beta release of Fiji had support for both H.264 and the HDPC as well, until the second beta release removed it intentionally. So yeah, it looks like its being saved for Windows 7... tentatively. Personally, I'm not willing to be jerked around. If Microsoft wont tell someone what's going on, then DirecTV needs to. Meanwhile, both companies have seriously dropped the ball... Microsoft's only method of recording premium HD is a dying expensive solution and DirecTV's only method of recording premium HD is a DVR that makes a Sega Genesis look like MacOS X.
     
  18. Tom Robertson

    Tom Robertson Lifetime Achiever DBSTalk Club

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    Nov 15, 2005
    The nice thing about NDA's is no one can talk about things. The bad thing about NDA's is no one can talk about things...

    So if Microsoft and DIRECTV have mutual NDA's (and you can bet they do), DIRECTV might not be able to say anything like "nope, Microsoft screwed with you, so we can't release the HDCP20 until Windows [insert moving target here]".

    Since I don't know anything, I can't say that either, except as an example.

    Cheers,
    Tom
     
  19. morphy

    morphy Legend

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    Jun 5, 2007
    I agree with you 100%, Tom, and yeah I can imagine that there is a need for mutual discretion between Microsoft and DirecTV. I kinda see it as both company's way of silently telling power users to seek alternate solutions, and yeah I'm listening.
     
  20. Ken S

    Ken S RIP

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    Feb 12, 2007
    Oh, c'mon...the number of HDPCs that would be sold isn't enough for Microsoft to even consider when it comes to sales of their OS. They've sold about 200 million Vista licenses so far...do you really think they're holding this back to save a couple of hundred thousand sales (at best) for Windows 7...especially since we know those people would upgrade anyway.

    It's more likely that the projected sales and cost of the project didn't make it worthwhile for one/both companies to bring it to market. If DirecTV believed that strongly in the device they could have done their own software...or had someone write it for them.


     

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