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John, You are an idiot!!!

Discussion in 'The OT' started by missileman, Apr 27, 2006.

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  1. missileman

    missileman Legend/Supporter DBSTalk Gold Club

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    "Leguizamo, who played in "Moulin Rouge" (2001) and "Carlito's Way" (1993) among other films said that the was "proud of the protests" in which millions of Latinos took to the streets in recent weeks to protest some of the tougher immigration measures being debated in Washington. "

    "It is insulting that the law would call an immigrant a criminal," he said. "It's horrible."


    Once again, Hollywood speaks out of stupidity....:nono2:
     
  2. Stewart Vernon

    Stewart Vernon Roving Reporter Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    I've never thought that we were trying to call immigrants criminals... just illegal immigrants, which by the term "illegal" tends to imply that they are breaking some law, right!

    As I've said... I'm all for immigration, as long as everyone follows the rules and processes.

    It's like being in line at the grocery store. I want everyone to be served, but I hope they will be served in the proper order and that some semblance of order and lines at the checkout will be followed.

    If people could just run their cart through quickly and toss some money (or not) on the way out, then why should anyone stand in line and follow the proper procedure?

    Same for immigration... we are not only doing the country and the illegal immigrants a disservice, but all the proper immigrants a disservice when some folks are allowed to circumvent the proper procedures for entrance to this country.

    I say welcome, but follow the rules.
     
  3. dpd146

    dpd146 Godfather

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    The most absurd part of this whole thing is the desire to give "Citizenship" to all the ILLEGAL workers in this country who have no desire to be American citizens. They want to make money and send it to Mexico where there families are.

    And once you give them a legal right to be here and work, you think they're gonna keep chucking pinestraw for $4 an hour? Not likely, there gonna find better paying jobs which then leads to more people coming to the US illegaly to do the jobs they were doing.

    Seal the border and kick them out even it takes 50 years. There is no right to come here or stay. Don't call us we'll call you.

    Mexicans are now the #1 importer and distributor of narcotics in the US. They are taking high paying jobs away from good 'ol fashioned dishonest Americans. And the Hispanic gangs make the Bloods and Crips look like Shriners.

    Michael Savage has made it very easy to understand what makes a country, "Language, Borders, and Culture." Where does this underground workforce fit into this equation?

    Off to bed now, thanks for listening.
     
  4. Bogy

    Bogy Hall Of Fame

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    The solution is to raise the immigration quotas to a reasonable level, and make it possible for immigrants to come here legally. Immigrants who want to come here to work do not come illegally so they can earn low wages. They come illegally because we do not allow them to come legally. Raise the immigration quota back to where it used to be, allow workers to come here legally, and you will only have to watch the borders for those who are coming here for the wrong reasons.
     
  5. missileman

    missileman Legend/Supporter DBSTalk Gold Club

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    May 28, 2004
    I agree....Just make sure those legal residents pay their fair share of taxes.:)
     
  6. bobsupra

    bobsupra Work In Progress DBSTalk Gold Club

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    We can only hope they speak and write English as well as Missleman.
     
  7. juan ellitinez

    juan ellitinez Icon/Supporter DBSTalk Gold Club

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    Most "legal immigrants" from mexico make no more than 10 dollars an hour..THEY WONT PAY ANY FEDERAL INCOME TAX
     
  8. Bogy

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    It will be much easier to make sure they pay their fair share of taxes if they are legal. Many illegal immigrants already pay Social Security tax. Approximately 11 billion dollars a year that they will never see a dime from. At $10 an hour you assume that they will only work 40 hours a week, and only one person in the family will have employment, if you are certain that they will not pay federal income tax.
     
  9. juan ellitinez

    juan ellitinez Icon/Supporter DBSTalk Gold Club

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    If they have a family the income tax limit increases depending on the size of the family...as far as social security goes , How do they collect that tax from illegals?:nono: :nono: Kinda make the whole government look like they are talking out of both sides of their mouth in other wordslike politicians :lol:
     
  10. Bogy

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    At this point the IRS and INS do not trade information. Many undocumented workers DO have documentation, it just isn't authentic. In some cases employers are withholding taxes from workers who will never be able to claim them. In many cases illegal immigrants file tax forms with the IRS and and pay the taxes that are due, both SS and Federal, again, even though they will not be able to recieve any other benefit EXCEPT it proves how long they have been here, and it proves they have been productive members of the society, holding jobs and paying their fair share of taxes. The last time immigration law was passed which allowed illegal immigrants the opportunity to become legal these things were critical. Illegal immigrants, based upon what is being discussed currently, know that it is very likely that if a program is set in place to allow gaining legal status, proving these two things will once again be vital.

    Again, just in case you missed it, the IRS and INS are currently not communicating with each other, and many illegal immigrants file their tax returns and pay their fair share.
     
  11. juan ellitinez

    juan ellitinez Icon/Supporter DBSTalk Gold Club

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    personnally i have no problem giving the illegals legal status. I feel they are being abused currently. If businesses wish to use cheap labor atleast treat them a human beings
     
  12. jonstad

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    Crossing a US border without proper documentation is at present as much an administrative faux pas as anything. While technically "illegal", it is more of a question of not filling out the right paperwork.

    For about half the history of this nation, no "paperwork" was required. Once you got your boots on the ground, for all practical purposes you were an American. And many of our ancestors arrived just this way, at least those that arrived before the mid to late 1800's. So there is at least some justification to be indignant about labeling anyone that crosses our border without papers as a "criminal".

    In fact, this is what much of the current stink is about, making crossing the border "illegally" into a criminal offense! And/or making it a crime to offer them any aid or assistance a crime as well.
     
  13. dpd146

    dpd146 Godfather

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    Not really, they would be denied if they filled out the paperwork. Just because they want to come doesn't mean they get to. It's based on quotas which are supposed to prevent the very thing alot of places are experiencing, infrastructure collapse.

    It was alot harder to get here back then and when someone came, they assymilated into OUR culture/language.

    It is, and always will be a crime to enter the United States without authorization if we want to continue being a sovereign nation. There is no country in the developed world that allows people to enter their territory unchecked. Mexico doesn't welcome the folks from central and south america with open arms. They toss 'em jail like cord wood and deport them. Take a group of buddies and sneak into iran and start waving the US flag around and see what happens.
     
  14. Bogy

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    No, it is based on our fear of people who don't look or sound like us. The problem is one of quotas, but quatas have frequently been set very low for the "wrong kind of people."

    After a generation or two. Part of my family was part of a group of 400 families from the Netherlands who came to Iowa and bought up huge amounts of land. It took 3 to 4 generations before they lost the bulk of their "dutchness." It took them over 70 years to switch worship services completely over to English.
     
  15. jonstad

    jonstad Hall Of Fame

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    Well, it's more along the lines of driving without a license, even though you may know how to drive. I don't recommend either, but people do what they think they have to do to support themselves and their families. And judging by the amount of money sent bact to Mexico by "illegals", many are doing it precisely to support their families!



    That's all relative isn't it? Was six weeks or so aboard a ship with meals and water and a place to sleep provided really "alot harder" then a couple days crossing an arid desert with the goal of crawling under some barbed wire with the prospect of being turned around and sent back when you get there? Is that REALLY such a cushy trip? Not in my book.

    And people do die trying to make the crossing. They are willing to risk their lives in order to enter this country, with or without "papers".

    It's the GOP torn on this one. The fiscal conservatives like the cheap labor. You know, it helps in union busting and keeps costs down. The social conservatives are worried about polluting their inbred gene pool and are afraid their kids might pick up some Spanish along the way, or heaven forbid marry Spanish and/or Catholic!:eek2:
     
  16. dpd146

    dpd146 Godfather

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    And we all know how the Dutch scrwed up the country :)

    Bogy and jonstad, I take it you guys are for open borders?
     
  17. jonstad

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    I am for raising minimum wages and benefits so "legal" Americans will be able to support themselves and their families as gardeners, leaf-blowers and nannies without the need for food stamps or other government assistance. In other words, I'd like to move more poor people into the middle class. We are moving towards an hourglass society with the skilled, educated managers at the top and fast-food employees and WalMart greeters at the bottom and a shrinking middle class.

    I am also for encouraging and assisting Mexico and other under-developed nations to create the conditions where their citizens do not feel compelled to cross ANY border in order to provide for themselves and their families.

    I don't blame employers who hire "illegals" for our immigration problems. Because others do, often they must in order to remain competitive. And I don't blame the "illegals" for crossing the border to fill that need. I blame government policy that allows for the employment of workers at substandard wages and benefits.(and this is where the war on unions and collective bargaining comes into the picture) And policies and practices on both sides of the border that slows the development of healthy middle class economies outside our own borders.(part of this again the suppression of unions and lack of collective bargaining guarantees)

    So, I'd prefer that millions didn't feel it necessary to cross our borders. And I'd prefer businesses didn't feel it necessary to employ them. But I also understand each's positions.
     
  18. dpd146

    dpd146 Godfather

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    I will agree on the biggest prob is govt policy, however raising the minimum wage won't help anything. The cost of all goods and services will just increase to pay the wage and then the $10 an hour job is the same as the $5 now. And some college kid flippin burgers for beer money doesn't need $10 an hour. The market place controls wages. When you flood the market with a cheap workforce then the wages go down. And the reason the illegals work so cheap is the dollar/peso exchange rate. A large majority of their money goes back to Mexico where that $5 an hour is more like 10 or 15. This is a major factor in the watering down of wages. Look at bell hops in Beverly Hills, they used to make $15 an hour but now the going rate is $5 because of immigrant workers. Perfect example where a menial job could earn someone a decent living that has evaporated thanks to illegal immigration.

    I totally understand, and respect, the illegal immigrants desire to make a better life for themselves and their family, but that doesn't make it right or something we should allow or sanction. Immigration has always been a hallmark of this country and always will, but illegal immigration in the numbers we are experiencing will eventually criple this countries economy.

    I also understand the necessity of employers to use illegal workers under the current immigration policies. Tough employer sanctions would solve a large part of the problem. And obviously with 10 to 20 million illegals here there would have to some sort of guest worker program set up to prevent chaos.

    I am very glad I am not a politician who has to deal with this issue. It's much easier to go onto a sat forum and spout off about these things :D
     
  19. jonstad

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    Yes, things would cost more. And the average Joe Schmoo and his family might not be able to vacation at a four-star luxury resort as often resulting in fewer luxury resorts and more camping trips and cheap motels. If that's too high a price to pay for $15/hour bellhops, then you should be sastisfied with the status quo including "illegals" hopping your bells!

    Of course record corporate profits and tax breaks for the wealthy must be preserved because we wouldn't want to be seen as messing with free enterprise and if $5/hour bellhops are good for anything, it's free enterprise!

    Yes, maybe I'm proposing "wealth redistribution"!:eek2: But wealth is already being "redistributed". It's being redistributed to the wealthy! Part of that is certainly the driving down of lower income wages by "illegals". But it is also a notion forwarded that the unskilled and uneducated who can't cash in on stock options, IRAs, 401Ks or tax breaks are necessarily lazy, worthless and undeserving of more than $5/hour. The talking point is it's easy to rise from stockboy to CEO. And if you don't or can't, there's something wrong with you. Because look how many wealthy people there are! There can't be something wrong with the system.

    Capitalism is great! I love capitalism! But like anything else it needs to operate under some restraints. Making great gobs of money isn't a virtue in itself. And having great gobs of money doesn't make you morally or ethically superior by itself. So, if we don't want to concern ourselves with morality and ethics, we're on the right path. Success is measured by your bank account and nothing else.

    That's not my ideal society. Maybe it's yours?
     
  20. dpd146

    dpd146 Godfather

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    Neither does "pie in the sky" rhetoric about helping the poor by redistributing the wealth. The biggest redistribution of wealth is the Welfare System. What a huge success that has been. From safety net to hammock.
     
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