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L146 Spooling NOW!

Discussion in 'Other HD Receiver Support Forum (811, 921, 942)' started by leemathre, Feb 19, 2004.

  1. markcollins

    markcollins AllStar

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    Jan 27, 2004
    On The Money! Burn In Is An Issue!
     
  2. thevoice

    thevoice AllStar

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    Sep 24, 2002
    What T.V are you testing this on?


    Thanks
     
  3. thevoice

    thevoice AllStar

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    Sep 24, 2002
    I agree. SD should remain 480i on this box, but I look forward to discrete HD mode codes...At least one for 720p since that is all I use!
     
  4. thevoice

    thevoice AllStar

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    Sep 24, 2002

    Stretch mode is always ugly; I would advise purchasing something that doesn't "burn in" so you do not have to worry about this. I myself waited for larger LCD/DLP's b/c I wanted 720p/DVI w/HDCP and I knew Plasma screens burn in. It was well worth the wait! I do not have to worry about warping an image to prevent burn in and can even play video games in HD and not worry about ruining my screen.

    I guess my point is if there is room for improvement, I am all for it - but I would like to see other things fixed before they start manipulating video b/c of a problem with mainly first generation HD technology.. I hope more people purchase newer technology as I am sure the providers will start requiring HDCP soon anyway's making most of the T.V's w/o HDMI/DVI-HDCP useless and imagine the complaints you will hear when this starts.
     
  5. jsanders

    jsanders Hall Of Fame

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    Jan 21, 2004
    Great. You are telling everyone *else* to buy better equipment so that the programmers can work on your bugs first! hmmmm.

    I can't tune KBHK (UPN) in my area, even though it works on the 6000, and has a signal srength of over 100 on the 921. It won't add it to the channel list. Maybe it does work in your area, so does that mean that the developers shouldn't consider this a priority either??

    Maybe we don't have the money to buy better stuff.

    As far as the stretch problem goes, it is bad, and it is a priority to fix for the *rest* of us. It isn't an issue of just looking bad, it isn't scaled properly. If you look at the edge of the picture in 4x3 mode, then stretch it for 16x9 mode, you will notice that that portion of the 4x3 picture is actually gone! It stretches it past the 16x9 screen edges! That is why it looks so bad.
     
  6. thevoice

    thevoice AllStar

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    Sep 24, 2002
    I am just trying to open others eyes to what "Priorities" maybe. Never asked for these guys to work on any bugs that I maybe having but from looking at the ones that seem to exist , I wouldn't count this as being a "showstopper".
    This is why I mentioned when they have the time, yes get to fixing stretch modes but I would like to see the time used more wisely and problems such as random rebooting and OTA should be addressed first in my book.

    As you may/may not be, I am an old school ASM coder(65816/Z80/8086/68k) and have debugged many things in my life. I (and as many others in #ASM) like to talk about debugging and despite what others may think - we like to work from the core (CPU/BLITTER/BOOTSTRAP etc.) up to the GUI/etc... Not the other way around and mysteriously many of the other bugs work themselves out! This is done by setting something similar to a "Priority" level and the same goes over @ sourceforge - from being an Admin/overseer in so many groups there and setting priority levels, I wouldn't rate this one as being as high as you seem to think it is, my opinion though.

    Sorry you took the other message so personal, I was merely trying to give another perspective in what priorities maybe to Dish over our own. I have no doubt Echo will address these minor issues that so many of us complain about - I just hope it is sooner than later.

    I still will not get away from buying a DLP or LCD - best investment I ever made. If you have a 921 and HD already, you should have the money anyway (well this maybe another priority issue, never-mind)..
     
  7. Jerry G

    Jerry G Icon

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    Jul 12, 2003
    I'm glad you found happiness in a DLP. I found the DLPs I looked at to be lacking in many areas. The plasma is what made me happy. And yes, I'm aware of it's burn it and I deal with it. One way I deal with it is to stretch less critical 4:3 viewing content. Dish equipment provides a stretch with a 1080 and 720 signal. That's an important feature for me and many others. It's a feature that is advertised as being part of Dish's HD equipment and therefore it should work correctly and it should be a high priority item to get fixed. The fact that it doesn't interest you isn't a reason to slam everyone who does have a need for this. Time for you to get off your arrogant high horse and stop criticizing others as if you made the only possible choice in which kind of display one should buy. Sheesh, will some people never learn? I guess so.

    BTW, as far as your comments about people with 921s being able to afford better equipment, my plasma is a Pioneer Elite 1000. You know how much it costs, don't you. I could have gone the cheaper DLP route as you did, but I could afford the better technology and that's what I did.
     
  8. jsanders

    jsanders Hall Of Fame

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    Jan 21, 2004
    Have you had any random reboots, or OTA issues since 1.46 was released? It is supposed to be a stability release. I agree, these things are important, the highest priority. For the most part, it should be a whole lot more stable now. I still have the OTA issue of not being able to recognize UPN, but hopefully that is it. Time to work on some more things now.

    People are clamoring for the aspect ratios to be fixed, and guide data to be added!

    As far as programming goes, lots of us are programmers on this board. It doesn't mean too much if we aren't doing the source code for the 921, although we can do our best at trying to describe how to reproduce certain bugs, to make the debugger's job easier!

    It does sound like you are an old school programmer. It is nice to work from the core (up to the GUI), but i am weary of bugs just magically working themselves out. The 921 isn't a simple embedded controller either. I prefer to start looking through the code where I think the problem is, which may or may not be in the core. You can do a great job and make a stable kernel, but if the GUi person has a run away pointer and writes over your core data structures, you're hosed! It is interesting to note that in this case, the lock up issue was fixed by changing the chip. It wasn't the software, it was verilog or VHDL that made the image to change the chip. Going through assembly code, C code, or class libraries wouldn't have fixed it.

    As far as priority levels go, it is a must. Fortunately, we aren't the ones that set them. I would love to know what their bug priority list is though....

    From 1.46, with stability issues and most of the OTA bugs fixed, what do you think the priority is now?? I do think the stretch issue is a priority (with a lot of others), but not as big as stability either (hopefully you noticed my signature about rebooting the 921).
     
  9. guruka

    guruka Troublemaker/Supporter DBSTalk Gold Club

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    Dec 27, 2003
    It's a Hitachi 51SWX20B using the DVI (digital) input.

    .....G
     
  10. paulcdavis

    paulcdavis Legend/Supporter DBSTalk Gold Club

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    Jan 22, 2004
    The few of us who have 4:3 HDTVs that accept 720p and 1080i have a problem in that the modes do not display 4:3 material correctly on a 4:3 HDTV when the 921 is set to 720p or 1080i. The picture is either distorted or has a picture frame of black bars around the image. Since the display options menu allows selection of resolution as well as screen types, it should display both 16:9 and 4:3 material correctly for the screen type selected.
     
  11. 4HiMarks

    4HiMarks Hall Of Fame

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    Jan 21, 2004
    Laurel, MD
    I'm afraid I'm going to have to side with thevoice on this one. L146 hasn't been out long enough to determine stability, and I haven't noticed any improvement in the OTA issues that concerned me, but it's still too early to really tell on that either. These are things that affect all of us.

    I think it's fair to say that most of the people who are early adopters of this technology do so because they want to see the pure unadulterated picture as close to the way the director intended it to be seen as possible, and that does not include stretching it out of proportion, no matter how well the stretching is done. I have no problem with black bars on 4x3 content, and I think the gray bars mode is an excellent option for people worried about burn-in. I'll bet you'd find that most people who own plasmas (not on this forum, of course) aren't even aware it's an issue. They're more concerned about the WAF.

    I just want to see my 921 perform as well as my 501, except with the capability of displaying and recording HD content.

    (In the spirit of full disclosure, I admit I also own a DLP, but I waited to purchase anything until the 921 was announced.)

    -Chris
     
  12. jsanders

    jsanders Hall Of Fame

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    Jan 21, 2004
    Hi Chris,

    I think we are on the same page about stability issues, I think I've mentioned that to be a priority a few times. So far, 1.46 looks a lot better to me, except for not being able to tune KBHK (UPN).

    I bought my direct view TV to watch HDTV with its brillient clarity! Watching 4x3 SD content is not the resaon why I bought the TV. From that point, there will be a whole variety of opinions on what people will do and why. It is very presumptuous to say that most people will decide to watch SD unstretched.

    As far as the argument goes, the ONLY problem I had with previous statements was telling people they should buy an expensive projector to solve the problem. I spent $1000 on the 921, and it should do a better job with stretching.

    The stability issues affect all of us, and I think that the stretching issues affect most of us. They are both important issues!
     
  13. thevoice

    thevoice AllStar

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    Sep 24, 2002

    I was over at a friends and his 921 just random rebooted tonight (L146). Right in the middle of watching a PVR event - I would consider this priority!
     
  14. jsanders

    jsanders Hall Of Fame

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    Jan 21, 2004

    Me too!
     
  15. thevoice

    thevoice AllStar

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    Sep 24, 2002

    I actually have a 910 in my living room and have some issues @ the higher altitude, not to forget a slight blue burn in (not very noticeable though) I made the decision though and can live with it and don't regret it. As for DLP, I do not have one of these - I actually own a xbr900 LCD (for mainly video game's so no burn in) but think DLP is great technology and still give a thumbs up though to those whom are considering purchasing DLP, mainly for the price.

    Yes and the 1000 is a great set and I have no doubt in your happiness w/ it.
     
  16. Jerry G

    Jerry G Icon

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    Jul 12, 2003
    Oh no, not another person trying to assume that he can read my mind and know my desires. I'm the earliest of the early adopters, and NO one that buys an HD set today can be considered an early adopter. My first HD set was purchased in Aug. 1998 before there even were any HD broadcasts. There weren't any progressive DVD players at that time. I now have a plasma. Regarding OAR, yes I'm a purist in that I want to watch movies in their original aspect ratio. But when I put on CNN, I really don't care if it's distorted when I stretch it. And if you really understood burn in, you'd know that gray bars instead of black make a very small difference in burn in.

    Dish has advertised and promoted their aspect modes on their HD equipment. We've reasonably come to expect them. And they should work correctly. The stretch in the 921 should look just like the stretch in the 6000 and 811. It doesn't. It needs to be fixed, and it should be a high priority item. Unlike others, I don't buy a display to avoid burn in. I won't accept a lesser quality DLP display to avoid burn in. I buy what gives the best picture, and that's a plasma. I have no problem dealing with the burn in issues. And one way I do that is to use the stretch for certain programming. Please don't tell me how to watch programming and what display to purchase. I've had a lot more experience watching programming on a widescreen set than most.
     
  17. lex61564

    lex61564 AllStar

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    Feb 10, 2004
    I have had no problems so far with L 146, I am hoping we can get away from the once a day reboot rule.
     
  18. tm22721

    tm22721 Legend

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    Nov 8, 2002
    I don't understand all of the hoopla over stretching.

    If you just use zoom mode to watch 4:3 on a 16:9 display then there won't be any burn in, period, or any black bars for that matter. Problems solved. The only issue I've encountered is with some subtitles that get partially obscured at the bottom.

    Please don't bother me with OAR and watching what the director intended, either. There is very little 4:3 material that merits watching in OAR.
     
  19. guruka

    guruka Troublemaker/Supporter DBSTalk Gold Club

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    Dec 27, 2003
    Sure, but 'Zoom" mode should be named 'Zooooooooooooooom' mode. It overzooms. I guess what we're looking for is a zoom mode that is a bit more conservative and a stretch mode that either does a nonlinear expand (stretching the sides of the picture more than the middle) or does the absolute minimum stretch necessary to make 4x3 material reach the left and right sides of a 16x9 display.

    .....G
     
  20. Jerry G

    Jerry G Icon

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    Jul 12, 2003
    If you use the zoom on 4:3 material, you lose top and bottom content. The stretch fills the side while preserving the top and bottom, that is if the stretch worked correctly with SD channels on the 921. Now it vastly overstretches, losing side content.
     

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