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L214 vigil thread

Discussion in 'Other HD Receiver Support Forum (811, 921, 942)' started by invaliduser88, May 23, 2005.

  1. bluegreg

    bluegreg AllStar

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    May 10, 2004
    I think the team at eldon is one very cheap person!
     
  2. UT_Texan

    UT_Texan Mentor/Supporter

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    Dec 9, 2004
    it would appear to me that the delay would have to do with the zsr issue. I think that is the biggest issue on the table. The next would be the stuck aspect ratio. Mark had posted that it would take two updates to fix the zsr issue. They could easily fix this "one last bug" in the second update that will fix the zsr. I mean come on how hard is it to look at the code changes that were made that caused these new issues to understand where you screwed up.
    I think they need to just delete the 921 forums as they haven't served much real purpose in the last few months except for us to gripe
     
  3. boylehome

    boylehome Hall Of Fame/Supporter

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    Jul 16, 2004
    In todays society it could also be a crutch for job security. It is more logical, in the private sector, to fire those of incompetence. But hey, I don't want anyone to become politically incorrect. :)

    The forum has kept several at bay with their axes, chain saws, TNT, and water cannons. So my vote is to keep the forum until all the bugs are squashed.
     
  4. eclipsetrb

    eclipsetrb AllStar

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    Jan 19, 2005
    Dude till all the bugs are squached...damn I hope I live that long.... I mean I like you guys and all that but I don't know if Im ready for a long term commitment like that....
     
  5. Allen Noland

    Allen Noland New Member

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    Apr 23, 2002

    I'm sure it is lawyer driven.
     
  6. AVJohnnie

    AVJohnnie Icon

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    Jul 27, 2004
    Nope – That and the other bugs (oops, I mean undocumented features) are just minor concerns in the greater scheme – I'll bet that the holdup this time is due to getting the Channel 100 feature (Mark warned us was coming with this release) functional enough so that you can pay your bill with it. :sure:
     
  7. Allen Noland

    Allen Noland New Member

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    Apr 23, 2002
    It isn't dish home. That is scheduled next after L214.
     
  8. AVJohnnie

    AVJohnnie Icon

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    Jul 27, 2004
    Darn... Well Allen, that's why I don't do Vegas or Lotto. :p So anyone else care to place a bet? :lol:

    ... and I really thought I had it too... darn, darn, darn... :D
     
  9. ebaltz

    ebaltz Hall Of Fame

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    Nov 23, 2004
    Mark must be on vacation since he hasn't posted anything since Sunday night May 22.
     
  10. Allen Noland

    Allen Noland New Member

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    Apr 23, 2002
    Mark has a new project at work that is consuming most of his time. I'm trying my best to keep the shop going here. L214 not coming this week isn't making that job very easy. Guess it is my fault for getting peoples hope up about it actually coming this week.

    When I got word it wasn't coming my first thought was the number of complaints would be posted on the forum. I was the same way though. I was always looking for info on when the next release was coming. I had one of the first 501's, and I was always looking around for information on when the next Update was coming. If information was floating around about a release and it didn't pan out I was upset also. But then I think about how things are with D*, in that their updates are usually a complete surprise.

    Anyway, Stay tuned.
     
  11. invaliduser88

    invaliduser88 Welcome to Torchwood DBSTalk Gold Club

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    Apr 23, 2002
    I just hope the extra time that Dish is taking to get this one out, will be reflected in the quality of the next release. Let's not have another half-baked update the introduces new "features".
     
  12. Michael P

    Michael P Hall Of Fame

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    Oct 27, 2004
    I got a call from ADV Tech Support last night. It was a follow-up to an issue I had with my replacement 921 (sluggish or no resopnse from the remote and then no response from the front panel either until doing a power cord reboot).

    Long story short, he gave me some insight on what's happening with 214. Apparently the various fixes and features that will comprise 214 have been pulled-out, and in some cses put back into 214. He gave me the impression (i.e. by reading between the lines) that they are trying aufully hard to make 214 not be another fix one bug create two new ones update.

    He would not confirm about Dish Home (another tech did in the previous call). When I brought up the OTA guide issue he did say that PSIP data from the OTA's will uiltimately be the source of guide data (YESSSS!) and also fix some channel maping issues (one of my OTA's no longer maps to their analog-01 channel number, showing up as Rf-digital channel number). I shared with him some problems unique to the SD outputs (as confirmed by another poster here regarding the pulsation of some color on only one station in the market).

    Hanng in there everybody, better days are coming! ;)
     
  13. David_Levin

    David_Levin Icon/Supporter DBSTalk Gold Club

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    Apr 22, 2002
    It's not even remotely your fault. Dish publically announced 5/19 on the Tech Chat.

    Those of us that have been here awhile know well that 921 software releases NEVER come on time.

    There's obviously something very wrong there. 3-4 months to find and squash the ZSR bug is absurd.

    Those of us who've been here awhile also know to take all E* statements with a grain for salt. Comments from first line CSRs are completely useless. Even the advanced tech suppose doesn't seem to really know what is going on at Eldon.

    I certainly wouldn't try to make any assumptions about continued 921 support based on Mark's involvement here. I have a feeling that when he volunteered his time to take on this task he had no idea they would still be trying to stabilize the box after 1.5 years in the field.

    We'll likely get continued low-level support for as long as there are 921's in the field.

    Maybe well see Dish Home. Maybe not. They might be swapping in mpeg 4 boxes before this gets done (we know how quickly 921 releases get out). Never use Dish home anyway (it's easier to grab the laptop).
     
  14. ggw2000

    ggw2000 Legend

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    Dec 22, 2003
    Apparently the various fixes and features that will comprise 214 have been pulled-out, and in some cses put back into 214. He gave me the impression (i.e. by reading between the lines) that they are trying aufully hard to make 214 not be another fix one bug create two new ones update.



    I may not be the "sharpest tool in the woodshed" but my guess is that if FIXes have been taken out(?) then I would assume that it would be hard to break anything! :D :D Gerry
     
  15. Allen Noland

    Allen Noland New Member

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    Apr 23, 2002
    The term Advanced Tech Support no-longer means much to me. I called about a guide data problem on one of my OTA locals. The lady was insistant that they didn't provide that information. I told her that I pay 5.99 a month for locals just so that my guide data on my OTA DTV channels. She says "We don't force you to pay for anything, would you like me to remove them from your account?". I ask her flat out, "You don't have a Clue?". dead silence.

    The story about stuff being removed from L214 is, well, it varies from my observation from the software I"m testing. The story sounds like what happen with L213. Everything that is in L214 was supposed to be in L213. Because of a Daylight Savings time problem all the original fixes were pulled and the DST stuff put in. We had it for like 2 days in beta then L213 came out. It was about a week later we were back to working on the L214 stuff.
     
  16. Rodney

    Rodney Legend

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    Aug 22, 2003
    I certainly hope the one item they want to get right, which is causing a delay in the release of L214, is the fix which eliminates the problem that caused data to be deleted from the hard drive. It would almost be criminal to have this fix and not release it because of some other non related issue. If there was ever an item that met the qualifications for a "EMERGENCY RELEASE" this is it.
     
  17. DonLandis

    DonLandis Hall Of Fame

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    Dec 17, 2003
    "When I brought up the OTA guide issue he did say that PSIP data from the OTA's will uiltimately be the source of guide data (YESSSS!) and also fix some channel mapping issues (one of my OTA's no longer maps to their analog-01 channel number, showing up as Rf-digital channel number). "

    Interesting! I had STRONGLY suggested this about 6 months ago. Since I placed my suggestion directly with the E*, not eldon development team or this forum, the suggestion arrived intact without modification or lay interpretation. I actually laid out the logic behind how the PSIP should be implemented. Additionally, I advised that the time to do this was not now (January 2005) but in about 5-6 months after the broadcast stations had the time to do their own testing on the PSIP mandatory guide requirement and hopefully, many will voluntarily include the full plate of guide data in their PSIP as they supply to the services. At that time the engineer did agree that what was suggested would be a good idea, it was not the current policy of E* to go that route, making OTA guide date a function of E* supplied service $$. I didn't expect them to simply say, "What a great idea and will do!" but hearing what you just stated tells me there is some discussion that this will ultimately happen. At least the suggestion didn't go into one ear and out the other at that time.

    The problem everyone needs to understand about guide data and PSIP is that much of what we are used to in a DVR service is not mandatory, but voluntary with broadcast stations. Therefore you will have some cities with some stations doing it the way we like and others not but just complying with the bare minimum of the latest Feb 2005 FCC regulation. Fo those who absolutely have to have perfect guide data (as perfect as it gets with the 921) then the subscription is the best way to go, however for those who refuse to subscribe and pay the fee for that guide data, then if the 921 is made to "see" the PSIP guide data into the guide it will be a next best second choice where currently we have nothing, with PSIP we may have at least 8 hours of guide visible. Can't recall the exact minimum right now but 8 seems to ring a bell. It's certainly not 2 weeks although some station engineers I have talked to are planning to publish their complete guide from their programming dept.

    Anyway, thanks for the feedback because as you know, suggesting stuff to E* is often like talking to a black hole.
     
  18. mfrodsha

    mfrodsha Cool Member

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    Sep 15, 2004
    My only major complaint with the 921 is the absolute strangeness by which the 921 is unable to do guide data with all the local digital channels. I mean, for crying out loud, we had a Samsung HD receiver before this, and it picked up guide data for each station, with a crazy amount of detail. I figured Dish was full of it when they replied that the broadcasters simply don't broadcast PSIP correctly. Obviously, I must've been dealing with the wrong tech.

    Anyway, two things I think Dish can do to make a believer out of me:

    1) have the L214 update before June 15 (I'm thinking August at this point)
    2) receive local PSIP for guide information.

    Who cares if the guide info is imperfect, as long as it's there? I'm so tired of seeing this non-broken up space of "Local Programming" on my guide for local HD channels.
     
  19. DonLandis

    DonLandis Hall Of Fame

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    Dec 17, 2003
    In a perfect world, every broadcaster would be compliant and offer what we expect but the fact is every broadcaster will have some degree of compliance and some will have gone above and beyond what's required. However, I agree that E* is out of line to prevent the 921 from at least seeing what's there. Like you said even if it's inaccurate, then all we need to do is deal with the local station but until the 921 sees the PSIP, what's the point?

    Some may recall when the 921 first began to use PSIP for channel mapping last July in an update. At that time, any station not using the (then) voluntary standard, was rendered invisible to the 921. Here, 2 stations were not using the voluntary standard, ABC and NBC affiliats. Anyone with a 921, lost those channels until the stations added the PSIP generators in their signal. Then there were problems until the PSIP was set up correctly. Many cities across the nation still are having PSIP channel mapping problems with their locals. Slowly, with the help of a few experts in the business, these stations are eventually getting the PSIP tables set up properly.

    Bottom line- dealing with OTA channels is always a local issue as long as the receiver is first compliant. Since the PSIP voluntary standard has now become regulation for the broadcaster, we now need to get E* to make their 921 recognize it. Then we can all work on our local stations for accuracy.
     
  20. 921Blues

    921Blues Mentor

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    May 29, 2005
    Wow...I'm kicking myself. I just bought a 921 about 3 weeks ago. I usually look for forums like this beforehand, but this time I didn't. From what I can tell, I just wasted $550. I know the rest of you have been suffering longer and probably paid even more - and I really feel for you. I've been a dish customer for 6 years and started with the first 7100. I bought the 921 based on the reliability of my current 508. Big mistake.

    I can't believe how bad this thing is. I have to reboot at least once a day to get control back for one issue or another. Sometimes, I even a reboot doesn't fix the problem - I need to unplug and sit. I guess my question now is - do I have a bad unit, or are these all the same experiences you are having? Here's just a sample of the things I've seen:

    - Remote lockups. Sometimes only some buttons, other times the unit just stops responding to the remote all together. Only an unplug reboot fixes the problem.
    - Stuck in HD or SD - HD/SD button has no effect or needs to be pressed multiple or an unpredictable number of times before the unit will respond. (Not a battery, interference or distance issue).
    - Stuck aspect ratio
    - Ultra long recordings - tried to record one program, ended up with over 1500 minutes recorded with no name
    - Ultra slow response time. Try to play a recorded program, takes 2-3 minutes to start. Other times, responding to any key press can take a minute or more.
    - Skip back button flakey behaviour. Sometimes it continues to go back further with each press, other times it keeps going back to the same spot over and over.
    - After watching a recorded program, sometimes unit will lock up at 'over' and I can't delete the program
    - Recordings and timers just mysteriously disappear

    The bottom line is that I rarely experience the exact same issue more than once under the same circumstances, so I can't even reliably reproduce the problem. Every day brings a new 'surprise'. The most frustrating situations involve the remote not responding. I doubt that the problem is being caused by the remote itself because the remote still controls my other devices fine - and a reboot or unplug corrects the situation.

    I have to add my dissatisfied voice to this forum. Dish has really got a lot of nerve 'selling' this to it's customers when it is clearly not even a slightly reliable product. What's worse is that I bought it because I was told the 942 was being reserved for 'new' customers - which also really makes me seriously think about giving up on Dish. They clearly don't care about me or my loyalty. You'd think that spending hundreds of dollars on receivers and $120/month for 6 years would make you a valuable customer...

    921Blues...
     

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