1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Learning the Lessons of Vietnam

Discussion in 'The OT' started by Lyle_JP, Aug 26, 2004.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Lyle_JP

    Lyle_JP Icon

    844
    0
    Apr 22, 2002
    Kerry knows now what he knew then... when you want press, use a cripple!

    http://www.c-span.org/vote2004/jkerrytestimony.asp
    http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=domesticNews&storyID=6062466
    Oh, and don't you just love how the Reuters "news" service makes the trip sound so ominous by making sure they refer to Bush's ranch as "heavily guarded". :lol: Gotta love that leftie, er, I mean "mainstream" press!
     
  2. FritzM

    FritzM Legend

    120
    0
    Feb 2, 2004
    After what Gringrich et al did to Cleland, you have the audacity to mention this?????
     
  3. Bogy

    Bogy Hall Of Fame

    13,242
    1
    Mar 23, 2002
    The Lessons of Viet Nam? And then you trot out this garbage? The lessons of Viet Nam are, shown by this campaign, that the war and all the divisions of my generation will not be healed until every last one of us is dead. When we are all in nursing homes we will still be going down the hallways beating each other feebly with our canes because one of us smoked pot and dodged the draft and the other went to Viet Nam and smoked pot.

    And if you are not part of my generation and have no idea what it was like during that time in our nation's life, shut the hell up and leave us alone.
     
  4. Richard King

    Richard King Hall Of Fame

    21,331
    0
    Mar 25, 2002
    Grouchy aren't we? :D
     
  5. Lyle_JP

    Lyle_JP Icon

    844
    0
    Apr 22, 2002
    You mean how those nasty republicans had the nerve, nerve I tell ya, to question the priorities and judgment of a man who would put the interests of service unions above national security? You're right, how dare them! Cleland is a triple amputee! How dare they question his actions as a Senator while running for re-election to his Senate seat! :rolleyes:

    I just love how the left trots out this "questioning my patriotism" bit every time they're actually cornered on their actions regarding the most important issue facing voters, that of National Security.

    Bogy, I'm sorry if the flippant title of my post offended you. However, what you posted made me think of an amazing column I read today. It's from the Wall Street Journal (Opinion Journal, actually), and yes, a lot of the time is spent Kerry bashing, but much of what you said is also found here.

    http://www.opinionjournal.com/extra/?id=110005524
    Again, the writer makes no bones about not being a Kerry supporter, but it's a good piece nonetheless.

    And true, I did miss the Vietnam generation by a few years, but it did not leave my family untouched.
     
  6. Bogy

    Bogy Hall Of Fame

    13,242
    1
    Mar 23, 2002
    Yes I'm grouchy, and getting increasingly so on this subject. I can relate to the opinion piece Lyle quoted and several others on the same subject I have seen in the past few days. My father's generation virtually to a man went off to war together, and when they came home again they continued to work together on many projects. My generation has been divided virtually all our lives, on many different levels. The worst example was Kent State, when young men in the Guard shot college students the same age as they were. You don't think atrocities happened in Nam when they happened in the U.S.? I knew that those of the next generation would never 'get it' when I sat in my apartment with a group of college students in my campus ministry watching a TV movie about Kent State, and the students couldn't understand what all the fuss was about. I realized they had been under the age of 5 to 8 when it occurred and they just didn't get it.

    I despair that we will ever "come together" before we die. It will be our children and grandchildren who will do that. I'm tired of posters here who refuse to believe the reality of the Viet Nam period, for example that joining the National Guard was considered a safe alternative to being drafted, when they weren't even born at the time.

    Yes, I'm grouchy, I'm tired of it, and that is why I am limiting my posts in these threads. I only posted here because I got sucked in by a misleading title. Lessons indeed.
     
  7. JM Anthony

    JM Anthony Child of the 60's DBSTalk Gold Club

    3,127
    1
    Nov 16, 2003
    And he's not alone. Unless you lived through the Vietnam era, you have no idea what the f**k you're talking about.
     
  8. RichW

    RichW Hall Of Fame/Supporter DBSTalk Gold Club

    6,526
    0
    Mar 29, 2002
    But better to have lived through it than died in it.
     
  9. The Old Wizard

    The Old Wizard Legend

    101
    0
    Mar 24, 2002
    I couldn't agree more. The generation after mine never has understood what it was like back then. I'm afraid they never will. The country was split by that war as was my generation. This has always saddened me.
     
  10. SAEMike

    SAEMike Banned User

    2,596
    0
    May 29, 2004
    Ahh, but I imagine that even though your military service is limited to complaining about people who joined the National Guard, you'll still weigh in on military issues, or will you "shut up and leave us the hell alone"?
     
  11. Bogy

    Bogy Hall Of Fame

    13,242
    1
    Mar 23, 2002
    Have I ever claimed to have served in the military? I was fortunate enough to have a high lottery number. They was my means of dodging the draft. I could have enlisted but didn't. Does that mean I was not part of that generation? Hell no. It means I was very much a part of it, working it the best I could as most of us were. I know what was going on then, I know what serving in the National Guard was THEN, and I know people who joined the Guard to keep out of Viet Nam. Of course some "lucky" ones got to go to Watts instead, and others got to go to Kent State so they could shoot college students.

    The question is, where were you in the 60's and early 70's? Because as your post concerning the National Guard points out, YOU JUST DON'T GET IT.
     
  12. SAEMike

    SAEMike Banned User

    2,596
    0
    May 29, 2004

    OK, follow this very closely, I'm going to stay this VERY SLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOWLY.

    1. You stated if you were not around during Vietnam to "Shut the hell up" (very reverent of you by the way, I will always remember how special it was when my spiritual leader first told me to "shut the hell up".

    2. Your comment implied, rather crudely, that without that experience, we have no right to comment.

    3. You have NO military experience.

    4. Instead of following your OWN ADVICE and "Shutting the hell up" you continue to denigrate the honorable service of many members of the National Guard, and spouting out your opinions on what the military is doing.

    Interesting contradiction. I suggest you follow your own advice.
     
  13. Bogy

    Bogy Hall Of Fame

    13,242
    1
    Mar 23, 2002
    Mike, I will now say this for you and a number of other kids who post here. My statement has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with military service. It has EVERYTHING to do with being part of a particular generation. I will leave comments about serving in Viet Nam to people like RichW, but I am still part of the generation that had to deal with Viet Nam, and we dealt with it in many different ways. I KNOW why guys went into the Guard at that time. You obviously still don't get it. The kids of your generation have never lived in a country with a draft, you think an all volunteer military is the way it has always been.

    I get criticized around here every time I don't remain my normal "saintly" self. If I get testy, cranky, and a little mean, my spirituality gets called into question. Too bad. This preacher is also human, and I've never claimed anything else, so deal with it.

    And as far as denigrating the honorable service of many members of the National Guard, would you like to define just what you are talking about. I still happen to be a citizen of the U.S., just like the vice president, and I will continue to comment about the military. I'm just tired of guys like you commenting on my generation when you don't know what the hell you are talking about.
     
  14. SAEMike

    SAEMike Banned User

    2,596
    0
    May 29, 2004

    Basically what you were saying is that if YOU were there, then everybody else, except those that were there should "Shut the hell up" (again, how reverent of you)

    If you WEREN'T there, then EVERYBODY has the right to comment on it, whether they were there or not.

    How convienent for you.
     
  15. Veander

    Veander Legend

    132
    0
    Aug 14, 2004
    I really don't think "being there" is a prerequisite for understanding. I served in the Marines and while I was there in peace-time, I still understand combat. I also understand why such a thing could have easily made many young men and woman not want to be a part of the draft. I don't agree with the draft, myself, but then again I am no real expert on what truth lies behind the validity of a draft.

    Anyway, I once heard a Marine officer (forgot his name though he was a captain) who said at a seminar-type event that one of the most important lessons of Vietnam is that it did show what lengths the american "soul" would go to stamp out communism. I actually heard this repeated by Bill Mahr on ABC's Politically Incorrect once too, but I doubt the Marine I talked to was the first to say that anyway. I felt it did have some truth in it, if not being about the best light you could spill onto a situation.
     
  16. JM Anthony

    JM Anthony Child of the 60's DBSTalk Gold Club

    3,127
    1
    Nov 16, 2003
    For those of you who didn't live through Viet Nam, I don't think you can just intellectualize it as being comparable to other wars and other times. It just simply was not. Very little that I recall from that era pulled our Country together. It was a very, very divisive time. The nightly news was a never ending saga of body counts on the one hand and Kent State, Watergate, and Watts riots on the other.

    As for you, Mike, you just plain have your head up your ass. If you're so gung ho to protect our freedoms, get off your butt and enlist. If you've got teenagers or young adults, get them to enlist along with you.
     
  17. RichW

    RichW Hall Of Fame/Supporter DBSTalk Gold Club

    6,526
    0
    Mar 29, 2002
    "As for you, Rich, you just plain have your head up your..."

    Me, or someone else? I already served.
     
  18. JM Anthony

    JM Anthony Child of the 60's DBSTalk Gold Club

    3,127
    1
    Nov 16, 2003
    My apologies. I've corrected the post.
     
  19. Bogy

    Bogy Hall Of Fame

    13,242
    1
    Mar 23, 2002
    Mike, try telling someone who went through the depression of the 1930's that you understand what they went through because you read "The Grapes of Wrath" or once were broke. They will laugh in your face. My frustration is with guys like you and Paladin telling your elders you understand the 60's & 70's and we don't. The thing for kids like you to do is shut up except to ask questions, listen and learn. When you get to be a grumpy old man you can tell others to shut up. I don't need people your age telling me I don't know what I lived through, I have children your age to do that.
     
  20. SAEMike

    SAEMike Banned User

    2,596
    0
    May 29, 2004

    That's fine. You stop telling me you know the difference between serving actively in the military or serving in the National Guard.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page