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Discussion in 'DIRECTV General Discussion' started by perryville, Apr 30, 2009.
Neither of which you can do with a leased IRD.
I can only assume you are looking for advise, so here goes: You should discuss your disgust with your contract holder and work out a deal. If you are not satisfied then you need to remove the offending problem which is bringing you sadness and despair. Then you can go along and be happy, which is the ultimate goal, right?
I really appreciate the sarcasm. I think its funny how many people don't find this to be a deceptive business practice.
He tried to help. What more do you want? Should we all agree with your "opinion" of deceptive business practice?
:goodjob: Very good way of explaining it....this is the reason I finally switched over from Comcast....the initial cost of recievers was the only thing keeping me from coming over, however once I did a similar calculation for my situation I realized that it would be cheaper in the long run, for equipment AND programming (and BETTER programming)
What he is (was) paying is a LEASE fee. Please stop twisting reality to fit some line. The bill states it is a lease fee. DirecTV uses accounting methods that classify it as a lease fee. Their financial reports are based on it being a lease fee and they collect, report and pay taxes based on it being a lease fee. In some tax districts it is taxed at a different rate because it is a lease.
Here's a copy of the DirecTV LEASE - http://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/global/contentPage.jsp?assetId=P500014
Customers should be aware they are agreeing to a lease and will be making a monthly payment to keep from defaulting on that agreement.
As for the OP...There's really not much difference between Comcast, DirecTV and Dish...the industry is one of the worst rated overall for customer satisfaction and those low ratings are well earned. Pick the one that gives you the best deal today (read ALL the fine print) and provides the programming you're interested in. I'd be careful about announcing you're using Slingbox to view programming as that could be construed as signal theft.
Ok, let's clear something up here:
For every receiver after your first one you pay $5 a month program mirror fee.
Owned = "Additional receiver fee"
Leased = "Lease fee"
You pay the exact same fee, leased or owned.
As for up front fee:
Owned = $400-600 up front
Lease = $200 or much less (many get it free)
So I guess take your pick:
Pay $400+ up front and pay $5 a month.
Or pay $200 up front and pay the exact same $5 a month.
As for cable/FIOS. Usually $0 up front (although some charge up to $40 up front) and *MUCH* higher monthly cost. HD DVR monthly is at least $15 and as high as $25 a month I've seen. So you might not pay anything up front but you pay a whole lot more per month. Won't take you all that long to pay the same $200. And then with cable/FIOS you keep on paying that higher fee forever. With DirecTV you don't, just the $5 program mirror fee.
Personally I'd rather pay a bit more up front and get much lower monthly fees over the long haul.
Oh, and Dish leases their receivers as well. And once you're a Dish customer good luck getting any new receivers for free. Many switch to DirecTV because of that. They are both the same in that regard although DirecTV appears to give more deals to existing customers then Dish does.
So now that you have all the facts you can make an informed decision.
I knew before I 'signed up' through Verizon about a year ago that I would not own the equipment. I don't remember exactly how I learned how it works, but before I agreed to anything, I knew what I was doing.
As far as 'no moving parts' in a DVR, the hard drive certainly does have moving parts. To say there is no 'wear and tear' on the DVR after 2 years doesn't make sense. Would you rather have one from DISH in an unopened box, or a two year old one someone turned in?
~$100 for an unlimited lease (today's price I believe) is a great deal. I would much rather do that than pay $400 to $600 and 'own' it, just so I could sell it to sometime in the future for 1/2 that.
The OP did sign something. Verizon or D* would not have done the install without a signature. The OP should go to both for that record. He may not, though, because then he will see that he was indeed informed up front.
I think some people just get angry at themselves because they think they made a mistake, and don't know how to vent except to blame someone else.
It's getting tough to do business in this country today. Too many people today think it's bad when a company makes a profit. Or like in the case of someone who signs a variable mortgage agreement, when rates go up they blame the bank and want to get bailed out.
It costs all of us more for services when a company gets sued, or has to settle because a customer 'says' they got screwed. When a company's cost goes up because of this, we all have to pay more. This sort of thing gauls me as much as anything, especially when I have taken the time to learn what I am signing up for.
You could have easily found the information about the lease if you had simply gone to directv.com. Your situation is not that bad and is at least partially your fault for not asking for more information. When I signed up for D* I was told they would have to pay a $300 upfront fee because of my credit score (over 750, wtf is up with the $300 with that score?). I was lied to by 2 CSRs that I would get the $300 back after making my first payment. I checked every term I could find on their site and could find nothing to show what I was told was false. Now I must stay 5 years, 3 years PAST my contract if I want that deposit back. What they did to you may not seem right but they've done MUCH worse to others by flat out lying to customers. I spent over 6 hours on the phone with them to hear there is nothing they could do to help me. You do have some responsibility to research things yourself and not trust the first salesperson you talk to.
I'm assuming someone would try to be helpful, no I'm not angry enough anymore to try contacting the VP of customer service, I did get the go green discount, no upfront hd dvr charge, the AAA discount and 4 months of low cost premium so I consider it even at this point if I cancel after 2 years and lose $180 considering the discounts I've gotten exceed that amount
I love guys like this one. When you lease an apartment, they tell you what you get and what you don't get. When you lease a car, they tell you how many miles you can drive each year (or average per year) and they all have upfront costs and you know what they are. Cable companies, Landline, and Wireless companies have the worst business practices I know of. The fee for service is usually like 80 or 90% of the actual bill for service. I knew better in my business dealings with E* to make sure I was actually going to save money, and I am happy to report that I am.
Even the airlines quote prices before known fees. The business community has tried every dirty trick in the book to raise their profits through any means necessary including what I would claim is a "bait & switch" (at worst) or "false advertising" (at best) techniques.
DVRs do have moving parts -- they have computer hard drives. Hard drives have moving parts. Check your facts before trying to insult someone.
1. you did not "buy the reciever" you paid the lease aquistion cost for the unit. If you would have purchased it the price would have been between 300-600 US
2. Last time I built a computer it had a multitude of moving parts, fans, hard drives, dvd drives, with the exception of the dvd drive the HR2X has the same
3. you agreed to a contract with verizon, if you have a problem with what you agreed to, then take it up with the company you acquired service from
4. apartments you normaly pay first/last and a security deposit which unless the apartment is in the exact same shape you leased it in, you rarely get back add to the fact that at the end of the lease, unless I extend on a month to month basis I don;t own the apartment either. fact of the matter is, an apartment lease is a bad example, better example is automotive lease, there you pay an upfront aquisition cost that is NOT returned at the end of the lease, same as with the directv, nor do I own the car at the end of the lease, they get it back
Bottom line be sure to know what you are agreeing to - the few time I have had a Directv tech out for a upgrade or addtion there is an acceptance document for work performed that they go through and request that you agree to - try reading the back of it also
It sometimes does seem like that and I've seen many comments from people who would not ever consider leaving because of Sunday Ticket.
Many of us were in an uproar about 2-3 years ago and have just learned to live with it by now.
Given the HR2x's 'reliability' the last thing you would want to do is buy it.
Btw all cable/sat DVRs are leased right? Either an upfront fee like Directv or a $15+/month lease fee. I agree not explicitly stating the DVR is lease is deceptive, but I'm not getting screwed in any way since the upfront fee is <= the monthly lease fee method.
I've been a DirecTV customer since 1995. Back then, I had to buy my receiver--I think it was Circuit City. I cost me something like $400. Compared to the $100 for the current lease, I needed to own that for 4 years to "break even".
But over the next 4 years, the receivers certainly got better, probably much better than what I had. DVR was introduced somewhere along the way.
Considering how often these receivers are updated and enhanced, I'd rather not own one. The first DVR I bought had a 20GB hard drive IIRC. Who wants that? Even one from a couple of years ago would be "substandard" by today's standards. So let's say he did buy his equipment. What could he expect to get for a two-year old DVR? There's no way it would be any more than the difference between the lease and purchase price, and I would bet it would be quite a bit less.
If I was in the market for a DVR, I have to consider the wear-and-tear of two year's hard drive use--possibly 24/7, combined with it's lower-capacity and possibly missing features a current model has. All those factor to significantly lower its value in my mind.
I think perry is trying to twist an argument by even thinking of putting up an argument that the equipment does not depreciate or wear out.
While I'd rather not pay anything up-front, I'm not sure purchasing the equipment makes any more sense. It certainly was no surprise to me that the $100 was a fee and not a deposit. I'm not saying this was perry's case but many people don't really pay attention when making purchases--they get caught up in the moment of getting something new and miss some important details.
Early in the lease model, there were some real problems with the communication by DirecTV and it's retailers regarding the conditions of the leases. That has certainly changed over time.
Especially now, I find it difficult to see this as a "deceptive practice" when any time I have had to deal with getting new equipment - and even on the occasions when I've had to replace equipment under the protection plan and it didn't even apply - I have been hammered by CSRs droning on about the fact it's a lease, a commitment, equipment must be returned upon account cancellation, etc., etc., etc.
There are many documented cases of people indicating they were not informed. There are also many cases, like mine, where we were most definitely made painfully aware of all the 'fine print'. Somehow I find it a little less of a surprise that someone who went through a third party like Verizon may not have gotten the message.
As others have stated, whenever I had a tech out, whether for a dish/equipment upgrade or a Mover's Connection two years ago, I was asked to sign off on an install order on which was disclosed the conditions of the lease. I know it was there because I actually read what I was signing - even while excited to start playing with my new toy. It was there in black and white, so to speak (it was actually probably blue & yellow?).
Ya, in my case I certainly couldn't claim any 'deceptive practices'.
What about a straight up HD only box. Where's the wear and tear?
Electrical equipment eventually wears out and breaks. How about iPods, cell phones, motherboards on a computer, etc? That stuff breaks all the time. If you don't like paying up front, stick with cable where you just pay those up front costs (and then some) over time month to month for inferior hardware.