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Local package - Deadlines?

Discussion in 'General DISH™ Discussion' started by Link, Feb 3, 2004.

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  1. Feb 3, 2004 #1 of 15
    Link

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    Do Echostar and Directv have deadlines in which to add all the 200 some DMA markets to satellite?? I was thinking that maybe it was by the end of 2004 since someone mentioned the "grandfathering" of distant channels ends at that time??

    It seems like now the satellite industry is extremely unfair because currently some get all networks - ABC, CBS, NBC, Fox, WB, UPN, and PBS all for $5 or $5.99 while other DMAs maybe have to pay extra $1.50 for missing affiliates--that is not right.
    Everyone should be entitled to all 7 networks for the $5 regardless of market size. It is also unfair that some new subscribers who do not qualify and are instantly denied waivers and are not able to record network programming on the DVRs.
    The only thing I care about having is ALL network channels and then some of the basic satellite channels.
     
  2. Feb 3, 2004 #2 of 15
    TonyM

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    UPN & WB arent considered networks..(according to SHVIA)

    But you arent comparing apples to apples...
    WB usually doesnt put an affiliate in a 100+ market, but does make it cable only.
    UPN can be cable only, or on a LP station, or on a digital subchannel.

    So alot of these markets can't get WB or UPN OTA to begin with, so if they get dish to get their local channels, technically the satellite companies arent doing anything wrong by not offering WB or UPN along with the Big 4 for the same rate.

    Duluth, MN is a perfect example
    WB is cable only
    UPN is a subchannel on the NBC affiliate

    So I cant get WB OTA, and unless I had HD, can't get UPN.

    Use to have a LP UPN 4 years ago, but it was so bad, it wasnt funny. Picture was black & white most of the time or had lines in it. Coverage area was about 7 miles, if that (it was only at 253W). At one time, on cable, Duluth had 2 UPN's...KMSP from the Twin Cities (when they were UPN) and KDUL (the LP)..and then KDUL went off the air 11 months later.

    But back to the topic...since WB & UPN arent considered networks, they can offer them as ala-carte (or in a locals package for 8.99).
     
  3. Feb 3, 2004 #3 of 15
    Geronimo

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    I don't think that tehre is any such deadline.
     
  4. Feb 3, 2004 #4 of 15
    Jacob S

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    I have read where they are wanting to have a deadline for satellite to launch all local markets.
     
  5. Feb 3, 2004 #5 of 15
    SamC

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    There is NO deadline for offering "all markets", nor is there any economic reality that such offering will ever be made.

    This is for two reasons. One is simple numbers. The number of people in markets 101-212 is less than one-sixth that of people in markets 1-100. But the costs of offering coverage is the same. There simply isn't a reasonable expectation that enough people would buy such locals to make it reasonable. Two is the nature of TV offerings in this country. The number of stations per market declines in the smaller markets, and people do not watch TV in that manner. For example, a market near me is Parkersburg, WV. It is not a market, really. Its ONE station, a UHF NBC. There is no body in the market that can't get it, for free, OTA. Cable pulls in the remaining stations from nearby cities. If DBS offered that market, it wouldn't make one sale.

    After market 100, you will see nearly no markets added. That simple.
     
  6. Feb 3, 2004 #6 of 15
    Mike123abc

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    Dish is already offering markets down to around 150 and if you count Alaska even lower. The Parkersburg, WV market you mention would be ideal for DBS, they could offer the NBC and out of market all the other stations. Many of the smaller markets are also very rural, a lot less cable competition.
     
  7. Feb 3, 2004 #7 of 15
    TonyM

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    Oh, contrar monfrar....There are markets past 100 that Dish will put up.....but then again, Im still waiting for Duluth...it was suppose to be January.

    We've got a DMA like that in MN. Mankato (90 minutes SW of Minneapolis) has one station..KEYC..a full power CBS affiliate..Some of the DMA can get an ABC out of the Rochester/Austin, MN/Mason City, IA DMA. But Mankato qualifies for distant NBC & FOX.
    If Dish puts up those local, people would probably qualify for NBC & FOX out of Minneapolis (the cable company has all 4 out of Mpls, ABC out of Austin (KAAL), and KEYC (CBS)..so the cable viewers actually can view 2 ABC & CBS)
     
  8. Feb 3, 2004 #8 of 15
    James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    Locals need to be redone, especially as we approach the smaller markets that don't have "the big four". E* will have to take the plunge and accept LPs and DT subcarriers to fill that out. Neighboring DMA channels (with whatever governmental approval is needed) will need to be offered.

    We have one of those odd DMAs in Indiana ... Lafayette. One full power station. The only way locals could be offered there is to have Indianapolis channels fill in the networks.

    The FCC has not set a date for 210 markets ... YET. It is clear that they will as in their dealings with the recent DirecTV buyout one of the conditions was more local markets IN ADDITION to those already announced. 105 isn't enough for the FCC.

    JL
     
  9. Feb 3, 2004 #9 of 15
    Link

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    Everyone should be entitled to the same networks as Dish subscribers. It is unfair that someone in a large DMA like Indianapolis can get all networks ABC, CBS, NBC, Fox, WB, UPN, and PBS while someone in a small town can maybe get 2 distant channels and go without the others.

    The main reason I like having my network stations is because I want to record network programs in daytime and primetime. I rarely record anything on other channels unless it is a movie. Everyone should have this option period.
     
  10. Jacob S

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    Those that are in the Parkersburg, WV DMA get the NBC-15-WTAP along with the WB station. The Charleston, WV DMA channels 3, 8, 11, 13, 33 are also on the cable systems in the Parkersburg, WV DMA. These also needs to be done on satellite. At least the missing channels in that market should have the neighboring DMA's channels. This is legal isn't it or is this something that the FCC does not allow? I know that Dish allows you to pick certain cities if you are eligible for distant locals, but the neighboring DMA should also be a choice.
     
  11. SamC

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    1 - Clearly the simple solution to all of this SHIVA DMA map crap is a clear rule. DBS can carry the local DMA plus any station that any cable system within 10 miles of the customer carries. But that isn't the law, DBS sold out small markets when it wrote the SHVIA, and Congress probably won't revist SHVIA for decades.

    2 - I know that certain forces have a mantra of "212-markets". Its not reality. Sats cost billions of dollars. You will not see many markets below 100 EVER offered. The ones that are are basically spot beams that happen to have some empty slots on them.

    3 - The FCC has no authority to order further LIL. The DirecTV merger with further LIL markets were an offer that NEWS made to get the deal approved. In fact, its probably not even in Congress' power to order further LIL.

    4 - What I think you will see some of is local congressmen pushing through local exceptions to the SHVIA in particular markets, allowing sales of nearby channels in less than 4 channel markets.
     
  12. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    SHVIA is being revisited NOW. Certain provisions expire in 2004, and must be extended or distants and superstations may just go away.

    The current rules give STATIONS the option of "must carry" (forcing the station on satellite with no money changing hands) or "consent to carry" (usually paying he provider for the channel). Your "can carry" relies on cable system choices, and still remains a "can". The "must" vs "consent" options for stations needs to remain to keep smaller stations on the system.

    You are being proven wrong. First, there are only 210 markets. Second, E* is at 106 or 107 and will be at 150-160 by the end of THIS year. Third, D* will be at 105 next month and the FCC has ORDERED them to expand further.

    It is in the FCC's power to not renew the licenses. They can do that if the providers are not acting in the public interest. They CAN define having locals as a public interest.

    We will probably see more than that. But your post will be long forgotten by then.

    JL
     
  13. SamC

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    1 - SHVIA does not "expire" this year. The TEMPORARY provision that "grandfathered" certain long-time customers who, well, lied, about their inability to get OTA signals will end. As it was designed when the law was passed. There is no SHVIA in Congress, and will not be.

    2 - Right. Charlie said so. Whatever. The economic reality is that it cost the same to cover the sub-100 markets, with ONE-SIXTH the potential return. In fact, to offer markets above 150 offers ONE-TWENTY THIRD as much potential for return.

    You will NEVER see general offerings of LIL in all be a nearly random few of the nation's tiny rural markets.

    3 - The "public interest requirement" applies to general broadcasting, not DBS. In any event, the idea that the FCC can actually ORDER DBS to carry Glendive, MT is fundamentally silly. You actually think NBC, Clear Channel, or Liberty actually think for 2 second about the "public interest"?

    4 - But Charlie says "212 markets" so its so.

    Whatever.
     
  14. Greg Bimson

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    Actually, Sam, I am wondering if distant locals as a whole expire this year.

    I seem to recall that not only was there a date for the grandfathering cutoff, but I believe there is a date on the statutory license to broadcast distant locals. Legislation must be introduced to extend the statutory copyright.
     
  15. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    Good answer. See you in January 2005, if you are still around.

    There is enough falicy in your posts I don't know where to begin, except to point you to the FCC website where you can read decision documents that clearly state the public interest in their decisions.

    Call the FCC liars if you want. But do some homework before you burn yourself.

    JL
     
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