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Local PBS in HD

Discussion in 'DISH™ High Definition Discussion' started by nmetro, Jun 25, 2009.

  1. nmetro

    nmetro Godfather

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    Jul 11, 2006
    Now that DISH Network has rolled out ABC, CBS, FOX and NBC HD channels in almost all the markets. Even going as far as adding CW HD to some of their markets. When can we start seeing them rolling out local PBS in HD? Considering it is next to impossible to obtain the national PBS feed over waiver issues; it would be nice to have this added service. I noticed that DirecTV does carry local PBS in HD in certain markets (at least New York and Los Angeles).

    And no I am not expecting the answer of "soon". I am looking for anyone hearing rumors of a possible local PBS HD rollout and expected time frame.
     
  2. harsh

    harsh Beware the Attack Basset

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    There's no evidence to suggest that DISH is working towards getting PBS HD going. PBS and APTS asked the FCC to intervene about 15 months ago, but it doesn't appear that anything came of it.
     
  3. Paul Secic

    Paul Secic Hall Of Fame

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    PBS HD channels won't be on until 2012.
     
  4. Michael P

    Michael P Hall Of Fame

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    There is a debate over E* offering the national HD feed vs all the local feeds. The locals obviously want their feeds.

    BTW: I have noticed that the local SD ION channel has been added to the Cleveland locals, however a check on the satellite location (119) tells me that E* is mirroring the national ION feed (the real Cleveland SD locals are on 110). I caught this a week before the analog shut-off when I noticed that my Father-in-law's ION channel via cable was pixellating. I went home and the E* feed was clean, then I checked the OTA feed and sure enough the pilellation was being transmitted by the then still analog ION station.
     
  5. BillJ

    BillJ Icon

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    Could you cite the source of this information.
     
  6. phrelin

    phrelin Hall Of Fame DBSTalk Club

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    Northern...
    That's when certain "must carry" rules kick in. I hope he's wrong. It was explained in the last Charlie Chat thread (see this post).
     
  7. nmetro

    nmetro Godfather

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    Interesting, that our so called representatives in Congress offer no special requirements for PBS and force markets to wait to as late as 2013 to receive an HD signal. It is effectively the closest thing to state run television in the United States. It would be like Australia not requiring ABC, or Canada not requiring CBC or the UK not requiring the BBC being uplinked in HD.

    Of course for many people, they cannot use OTA because they cannot get a signal and subscribe to satellite for this very reason. Paying extra for cable "lifeline" service makes even less sense, because most cable companies charge extra for HD local channels as they exist on a higher cost tier. So, let's hope that DISH either gives everyone PBS HD or implements a reasonable rollout of PBS HD. If DirecTV can do it, there is no reason why DISH can't do it.
     
  8. harsh

    harsh Beware the Attack Basset

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    I think you'll find that this isn't the case anymore. Most cable companies now offer the HD locals in clear QAM in the basic level if not at the lifeline level.
     
  9. Jim5506

    Jim5506 Hall Of Fame

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    The original assumption in the question is not true.

    Dish carries HD locals to the majority of the available viewers, but the number of markets covered is far from "almost all".

    This is because they did the bigger markets first to get the % of viewers up but now the grind of picking up the medium and small DMA's is setting in.

    I'll do more research on the exact numbers, but I'd guess they might have 2/3 of the markets available in HD.

    EDIT:

    Of the 210 DMA's Dish has 144 of them carried for at least one HD local and 4 more are uplinked but not live.

    That's 69% of markets are available to subscribers covering over 90% of the population.
     
  10. HarveyLA

    HarveyLA Legend

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    _________________________________________
    Originally Posted by HarveyLA View Post
    http://www.broadcastingcable.com/art...hase_In_HD.php

    "satellite broadcasters must carry TV stations' HD signals in 15% of the markets in which they carry any HD signals by Feb. 17, 2010; 30% of those by Feb. 17, 2011; 60% by Feb. 17, 2012; and 100% by Feb. 17, 2013."

    ____________________________________________________________

    So, by the current estimate, 15% of 144= 21.6= 22 must carry HD markets by February 17, 2010. But which markets? Does that include Hawaii and Alaska where Dish is already carrying noncommercial stations in HD as mandated by law? And is Alaska one market or three? There are three PBS stations, in Anchorage, Fairbanks and Juneau. Will Dish go with the top markets at first? The larger markets have more of the small independent stations but most of those don't carry any HD. In Los Angeles, for example, Dish would have to add commercial station KCOP, and PBS stations KCET and KOCE. Not sure if there are any other HD locals in L.A. There might be some very small markets where Dish could get away with adding just one HD local. But it would seem to make sense from the business standpoint to hit the top markets first.
     
  11. tnsprin

    tnsprin Hall Of Fame

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    Although it now looks like E* is not working to put up PBS HD stations until the must carry rules kick in, they did at one time say they were leaving room to add them when they first were adding HD LIL markets. But that was quite awhile ago.
     
  12. BillJ

    BillJ Icon

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    That's the way I remember it too. Especially frustrated because DirecTV in my market has carried local PBS HD for about a year. And Dish does have another HD local channel reserved. Seems like it's just a matter of negotiating for the rights to the HD feed. Dish has had the SD feed for years.
     
  13. HarveyLA

    HarveyLA Legend

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    PBS station KCET in Los Angeles isn't even in SD, let alone HD! The digital conversion has left the picture in permanent letterbox format, so that a standard 4x3 program has shrunk, with black bars at top, bottom and both sides. Since I mentioned this in the Charlie Chat thread, I have received no response to two e-mails sent to KCET. However, if you navigate through a confusing labyrinth on the KCET web site you will eventually find the explanation buried in the FAQ'S. They say a fiber optic cable link is in the works, which should fix the problem. 4X3 programs would be full screen, I take it,while 16x9 programs would be letterboxed. Obviously, this fiber optic link would come in handy for full HD as well.

    http://www.kcet.org/about/DTV/faqs.php

    How long will the picture stay this way?

    Currently, KCET is working hard to secure a fiber-optic connection to Time Warner Cable, DirecTV and Dish Network. This process has been in progress for more than one year, and it will eventually be completed. By having a fiber-optic connection, the reduced picture size will not be a problem.


    Will every show on KCET look like this?

    KCET is committed to providing the best possible programming. With the new digital transition, we are currently reviewing our options. We do not expect every show to look like this - only those produced in Letterbox.
    Will all shows on all channels look like this?

    The commercial networks use a different technique in the editing of their programs for broadcast. It is called "Center Crop." The Center Crop technique eliminates the "Letterbox" style, which is used by PBS.
     
  14. lacruz

    lacruz Legend

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    Many of the programs on PBS 249 on Dish have been like this for awhile.
     
  15. nmetro

    nmetro Godfather

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    "The commercial networks use a different technique in the editing of their programs for broadcast. It is called "Center Crop." The Center Crop technique eliminates the "Letterbox" style, which is used by PBS."

    This is an interesting statement. Virtually everyone in this country now has the capability of resizing the picture they receive from broadcasters. Because the analog to DTV converter boxes have a resizing feature. Of course, if you receive broadcast TV over satellite or cable; this feature is already available. So, why are broadcasters cropping pictures, reformatting broadcasts, etc to eliminate "letterboxing"?

    As for the above statement; KRMA and KBDI the two public TV stations in Denver are using so called" center crop" for some of their programming; though, it is much more apparent on KRMA. It was one of the reasons why I started this thread in the first place.
     
  16. HarveyLA

    HarveyLA Legend

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    Sure, you can zoom in with your Dish Network remote, but then you are magnifying a picture that's only around 330 lines high (an estimate but it makes the point) because of the letterboxing, to fill the 480 line display. So the picture is blurrier-- SD is bad enough on an HD set!
    Receiving the full digital signal off-air with a converter box is different, because then you get a full 480 line display if you decide on center-crop (on an SD Tv receiver)
     
  17. Yes616

    Yes616 Legend

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    Yep.. E* just gives you the national ION channel at your local channel number. You will never see a local station break.
    Yep.. E* seemed to have 5 spots saved for each market launched. For the most part they give us ABC, CBS, Fox and NBC and one open slot. The CW ended up in that slot for most where it was filled. Not PBS.
     
  18. nmetro

    nmetro Godfather

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    While this will work for most of the markets, it will not work for:

    New York, Los Angeles, Chicago, Houston, Dallas-Fort Worth, Denver, Atlanta, Philadelphia, Boston, Baltimore-Washington, Miami, Seattle, Phoenix, Las Vegas, et. al. Why, because of the number of TV stations in these markets. Some of these markets have two PBS stations, as well. DISH Network is do a disservice to these large markets where a vast majority of the population resides. Why it is nice that Bismark ND will be able to get their stations in HD (ABC, NBC, CBS, FOX and PBS) which is all they have; it does not help people who reside larger urban areas.

    It is hard to believe with all the spot beams that DISH Network has at its disposal, that they created such a limitation. I am not disagreeing with the comment above, but DISH Network's practice in regards to only uplinking a maximum of 5 TV stations per market in HD.
     
  19. commodore_dude

    commodore_dude AllStar

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    Yup, in HD Atlanta has:

    WSB (ABC)
    WXIA (NBC)
    WGCL (CBS)
    WAGA (FOX)
    WPCH (Independent, formerly TBS)
    WATL (MNTV)
    WUPA (CW)
    WPBA (PBS Atlanta)
    WGTV (PBS Georgia)
    WPXA (ION)

    Last time I tinkered with OTA Univision was running stretched widescreen on their HD channel, don't know if that's changed nor do I really care either way :)
     
  20. BobaBird

    BobaBird EKB Editor

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    L.A. is the first market with 6 locals in HD from Dish. The early HD markets were allotted 6 (not 5) channel numbers each in succession in the 6300-6500 range, but most of the additions over the past year or so have seen re-use of channel number ranges starting with 5150, 5160, 5250, etc. We know from national channels that Dish puts 7 or even 8 HD channels on one Tp. Given that many locals will have sub-channels that will be stripped off, that might allow for a few more HD locals on a spot-beam. My guess is the early markets will get re-numbered so the new channel will be next to the old ones.
     

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