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LOL, any one ever try 300 ohm for a mirror ?

Discussion in 'ViP612/622/722/722K DVR Support Forum' started by gov, Dec 16, 2013.

  1. gov

    gov Legend

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    Have a customer with a Dish 722, and the TV2 is wired up via the old line that ran from the 722 location to the old 500 dish and then back down the other lead to the TV2 location.

    The 500 dish was removed (left mounting foot on roof) and the 2 leads were barreled together.

    The 722 couldn't use the 500 dish location as 129 was obstructed by a tree, so the HD dish was installed fairly close to the location of the 722 on the roof and the coax ran behind a strategically placed downspout.

    (customer has brick home and is not eager to have coax on the brick)

    Roofing crew replaced shingles, and did not realize the loop of cable on the old mounting foot was in use, and they snipped the wires at the soffit. New flashing went over the soffit, so those wires are gone for good.

    I can run coax around the back of the house and get kinda close (12 feet or so) to TV2 except that the ceiling is drywalled, no possibility of a wall fish, and customer not thrilled with any wireless options.

    I was considering taking the A/V output from TV2 and running it into a channel 3/4 modulator and going in RG6 as far as possible, then using baluns and poking 300 ohm flat lead under the carpet.

    I'm thinking I have a better shot with VHF-lo channels than using the onboard cable/UHF modulator on the twin lead due to it's lack of shielding and generally being obsolete.

    Has anybody tried this ?

    I have a roll of 300 ohm flat (don't laugh, figured it might be useful someday for something) and can dig up a pair of baluns. Just not eager to try it in front of the customer (lay it out first and see if it works before poking under rug) and have it not work.

    Plan B is wait for frost to go out of ground in the spring and trench in cable. Not eager to do that either for obvious reasons (I'm old and tired).
     
  2. inkahauts

    inkahauts DIRECTV A-Team

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    Well it's worth a shot. I have never done it with anything dish but I used flat cable once ages ago for DIRECTV and it worked.
     
  3. shadough

    shadough Icon

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    It would probaby work, only problem is the sheilding isnt great (non-existent basically) so it might create a snowy picture, but since its a 722, the output signal would be stronger than the old school 3/4 output receivers. So I'd say definitly worth a try. Since its just the TV2 backfeed. A flat coax would work best, but may not be neccesary.
     
  4. gov

    gov Legend

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    Haven't made it back to try 300 ohm trick yet, holidays are munging up customers availability and mine too. I do have a temporary coax running all the way under a throw rug so they are watching TV downstairs for the time being. It isn't a long term fix though.
     
  5. Jim5506

    Jim5506 Hall Of Fame

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    Good quality 300 ohm twin-lead has less loss per foot than 75 ohm RG-6 coax.

    The problem with it is that it deteriorates in UV (sunlight) except for the type that is shielded and covered with the same black outer coating as coax, but it is expensive and subject to getting water in at the connections and the connections themselves corrode and lose effectiveness over time.
     
  6. gov

    gov Legend

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    Yeah. I'm running coax around outside of house and inside towards downstairs TV. Final leg where I will try the 300 ohm is going to be under an existing carpet. And then back to coax to get thru F-connector on back of TV.
     
  7. jsk

    jsk Icon

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    Wouldn't the twin lead be damaged by people walking over the carpet or whatever else is put on top of it? You should be prepared to replace the twin lead every so often.
     
  8. gov

    gov Legend

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    Yeah, it is not a perfect answer, but preferable to digging a trench around the house. I'm 56 and I'm getting funny about trenching without renting a track hoe.

    Going up on the roof and pulling off the soffit material and poking for the wire ends doesn't make me too excited either.

    :righton:
     
  9. shadough

    shadough Icon

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    Can't tuck a coax under the baseboard?
     
  10. gov

    gov Legend

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    Doorway.

    This is just such a frustrating problem. The downstairs TV was wired up and worked till the roofing crew snipped the wires. The residents thought they had screwed up with the remote and did not realize roofers had caused a problem in time to fix it directly. Basement area has drywall ceilings (when will people learn ?!?!?!?!), house is just old enough to have nothing in the way of existing coax in the walls, and the lot is heavily wooded. If they switch to DirecTV, a wireless client would be great, but they are back on DISH (they switch quite a bit) for now. Maybe DISH releases a wireless Joey before I have to cut the floor, but I am not holding my breath.

    At some point carpeting downstairs gets replaced and I can use my diamond saw to groove the floor and embed some coax, but for the time being, looks like some 300 ohm poked under the rug is how it gets fixed. Trenching in the wire is almost not an option, to penetrate wall in right location I need to be 3 feet below grade and penetrate a cement wall. I can do it, but it's a big project, and not feasible till spring.
     
  11. inkahauts

    inkahauts DIRECTV A-Team

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    Why about popin the modelings around the doorway off? Use a router an put a groove in them and slip the cable in the groove then put the modelings back to get over the doorway. Could also do the same behind the baseboards.

    Did that once with crown molding and you can't see any wiring.
     
  12. gov

    gov Legend

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    I've done wiring behind baseboards. Just not eager to turn this into a big carpentry project since I am not a carpenter. Putting TV on RH side of doorway fixes problem too, but does customer want to do that ? Nooooooooooooo.

    This isn't my first big annoyance at this house either. They switched to DirecTV w/o talking to me first, and while I like (and have DirecTV) I knew they would switch back in 2 years and they did. They also bought an el cheapo panel TV for the sun porch several years ago and never stopped harping about the lousy picture. Now they have a TV in the window blocking the view. Also, they wanted a VCR hookup badly on another TV, and I did it. Left extensive notes on how to record from DISH and playback same. They never touched VCR for 2 years, then suddenly they need to record something from DISH, can't find directions, and are calling and screaming at me on a Sunday morning to get me there to make recording for them. DirecTV system had to have diplexers for the mirrored kitchen TV, and even I had trouble keeping it working right. It's a brick house (lower level) , not 1 inch of coax was built into it, and they drywalled the basement ceilings. I'm not allowed to run coax on brick portion, but did manage to get some coax under the siding a few years ago, and that's what the roofers cut. If they had just realized the roofers had effed up the TV while they were still there it might have been possible to fix it. But they just figured they had messed it up by not running remotes correctly. They also have 2 little barky dogs, annoying grandkids that connect TV games to gramma's and grampa's TV when they visit and never seem to get anything put back correctly so the TV works after a visit.

    I'm not the only sub to not like that house, the plumbing outfit here has had several huge problems with their septic too.
     
  13. inkahauts

    inkahauts DIRECTV A-Team

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    Sounds like the roofer owes you some help fixing the cabling outside. Have you tried talking to him?

    And can you leave some cables hanging out for the kids stuff so they don't mess with the current cables? And then shoot them with a water canon if they screw it up? ;)
     
  14. gov

    gov Legend

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    I have a special play toy extension cord for annoying children. Took the end off the cord and stripped the wires back a ways . . .
     
  15. Grandude

    Grandude RichardParker II

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    If it were me, I would tell that customer that they were no longer my customer. (I'd be tempted to use stronger words!)

    But we are all anxious to hear if using the flat 300 ohm idea works????
     
  16. gov

    gov Legend

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    Will try and get there soon. Getting holiday kerfuffle out of the way is job one.

    There will be quite a bit of 'plumbing' on the mirror; 2 baluns, 300 ohm, lotsa coax, and the 2 little barky dogs hassling me the whole time I'm there.
     
  17. Jim5506

    Jim5506 Hall Of Fame

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    With all the extra kerfuffle, I hope you charge them confiscatory house call fees.
     
  18. inkahauts

    inkahauts DIRECTV A-Team

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    Ah I can't believe you don't ask them to lock the dogs else where if they are getting I. The way. I sure would and I have in these situations.
     
  19. DoyleS

    DoyleS Icon

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    El Dorado...
    The 300 ohm flat line will work for getting the signal there. The problem is that it could be sensitive to people walking on the cable or metal objects placed near the twin ead. Twin lead is a balanced transmission line and so the RF currents flowing in the two leads are equal in magnitude and opposite in direction. Any interfering signal would normally affect both lines equally and thus be cancelled out. However a metal object next to a balanced line will cause current to flow in the metal object and unbalance the line from a signal standpoint. It may be that your signal strength is strong enough for today's modern receivers to not be affected. As you have surmised, you are just going to have to try it. Your other alternative is that Dish just announced a Wireless Joey at CES. Not sure on delivery but you might Google that.
     
  20. gov

    gov Legend

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    Ooooooo, wireless Joey!!!

    {Even mentioned it somewhere above}

    Still haven't gotten back to finish it, with their holiday and travel plans and the horrid cold here I just haven't been able to reschedule. Temporary coax is still working and they have a throw rug over it so they can watch TV. Just don't like leaving a mess.

    I'll tell them about a Hopper and wireless Joey option. If 2 wireless Joeys would work, it would clean up a bit of wiring on the sunporch too. LOL, I don't care how long THEY have to wait for it.

    :sure:
     

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